"If Elon Musk, Jack Ma, and Jeff Bezos teamed up to disrupt your industry, would you have
the leadership necessary to survive or thrive?" After interviewing thousands of people, focus groups,
only two people have said "Yes". Everyone else has looked at us and said "I never thought
about that, we'd be dead". But if you play big, and you inspire a movement - which is bigger than
the money factor, which is something about the human condition - and you get your whole
ecosystem involved, now you play very big.
Shane Cragun, thank you very much for being here.
Thanks, Erik!
You have a book coming out on
next-gen leadership. And for our HR audience leadership is very important. Both because
a lot of our audience is looking for how do HR leaders build the capabilities for the
future for themselves, but also: How does HR build capabilities for leaders in the organization,
in general, especially going into the digital age? You're doing research, and I think you
have something very exciting to share about leadership in the digital age. Can you share
something with us?
Sure. We started a three year research project two and a half years
ago. And our notion was that - really - the leadership we're using today is outdated. It's like using
leadership 1.0 thinking to solve world 4.0 problems. So the idea was, two and a half years ago: the
world needs a leadership upgrade. We've spent the last two and a half years going around
40 countries, 40 industries, asking the question: "What leadership do people need to compete
and win in the age of disruption?" And we've bubbled that down to five master leadership skills.
That's interesting. Can you dive into that?
The first one is inspiring a movement.
So the leaders in the future that will be the best leaders are ones that inspire a movement.
We've always asked this question when we started interviews and focus groups: "If Elon Musk,
Jack Ma and Jeff Bezos teamed up to disrupt your industry, would you have the leadership
necessary to survive or thrive?" After interviewing thousands of people, focus groups, only two people
have said "Yes". Everyone else has looked at us and said: "I never thought about that we'd
be dead." So you don't have the leadership. But if you play big, and you inspire a movement,
- which is bigger than the money factor which is something about the human condition - and
you get your whole ecosystem involved, now you play very big. So inspiring a movement
is the first one. The second one is solving unsolvable problems. So product upgrades or
innovation is going to be second tier. It's all about solving problems that have never
been solved. For example, Elon Musk, and reusable rockets. The only reason we can go to Mars
now by 2035, is because of that discovery. He broke through an industry constraint. So
solving unsolvable problems. Plugging in external capabilities quickly is no longer about:
"Do we own a department?" - is "Do we own the capabilities?". It might come from our ecosystem. The fourth
is how do you maintain and generate momentum, when you're doing large scale change? So many
change efforts fail because of distractions.
And the last is charging disruption. We get
that from the big wave surfing metaphor. There's like 15 surfers in the world that will surf
waves 20 meters or higher. And the difference between them and everybody else is: when they
see a big wave, they charge into it, they paddle into it, and they surf it. So how do
we surf that? So the idea is that these are five master leadership skills that are big
activities that truly will put a moat around your business. And Musk and Bezos and Ma
will bypass you. There's nothing to disrupt you've already disrupted.
So that's very interesting. And I can imagine HR leaders listening to this thinking like, I want to
be the next Elan Musk, and maybe that's a bit of a challenge. So how do you go about
that? Is that something you can copy? Or is that something that, you know, Musk is born
with, and he's just a special person, and we have a few of those in the world?
I think there's different ways to think about it. So right now, what we're trying to do with
the research, with these five, is say: "How would you actually apply these?" And I think you're
not going to find many people with all of those. So the book actually might say, the
top leadership team needs to have those capabilities in the team. And then I'm often asked: "How
does HR facilitate that?" The best thing HR can do is ask the tough questions in meetings.
Be brave enough to ask questions.
So what are some of those ways to lead in the digital age?
Well, I think that you're...so everything's uncertain, everything is complex. I think
it's a bold,
confident leader. But I also think that's a leader that recognizes that people need
to willingly follow that person. So a big question is: "To what degree do people willingly
follow you?" And I think, if you're inspiring movements, and charging disruption...that's
the leader I want to follow.
So when you talk about Elon Musk, he has a big vision.
It's going to Mars in 2030. So it's, you know, it's a vision that people can bolster around.
For a lot of smaller businesses, how do you connect that to such a strong vision when you're a leader?
Okay, so that's a great question, a vision connects
to my head and my hands. It rarely connects to hearts. When you do a movement, you're doing
something beyond money, that will improve the human condition. And that's the difference.
So you've got to select - so we call it a 50/50 proposition: you always have to have profit.
No profit, no mission, right? But the other 50% has to be something that your industry
is uniquely qualified to conquer. For example: Toyota. Toyota has a new movement they're
inspiring, which is called: "Start your impossible". And they said: "We're not a car company. We're
a movement company." Anybody born with disabilities... that's not fair. Everyone deserves the right
to move. We're going to crack that code. And they've created this incredible ecosystem
of this movement. Yeah, they are a car company. But they're doing something bigger. So if I'm
an accountant at Toyota, think about this, Erik, and someone says "So how's your job
going at Toyota in accounting?". Think about the person the year before: "Fine. Yeah, great."
Now: "Oh, did you hear? Oh, no, we're inspiring the movement. We're going to be the company
that cracks the code. So anybody born with a disability can move like anybody else?" "Wow,
really?" "Oh, yeah. We are totally energized." In our department, our accounting department
has been asked to do something that can contribute to that. "Oh, yeah, we're not a car company..."
This is big. That's the idea.
So there's a lot of talk about digital and digital transformation,
also, when it comes to HR and, in general, businesses. How does this digital component fit into next-gen leadership?
If you look at industry 4.0, it is all about integrating technologies
in a way that they're all one and integrated in real time. So I look at - I'm not a technology
guy, Erik, but I look at technology as a great enabler. And without leadership, the technology
doesn't matter. We can talk all we want about new technology in the factory, but leadership
is going to make it happen. So I don't see technology as one of the five.
I see technology as one of the levers a leader can pull to make things happen.
As an enabler to make those five... One final question. What are three steps that...
Because HR is enabling leadership throughout the organization - if HR wants to enable next-gen
leadership, what are three very practical steps that they can take tomorrow in order
to enable this?
I would say number one, nothing ever changes unless there's a felt need.
Let's say I'm an HR leader, and I'm saying to myself: "Gosh, I wish the executives would
put more money into leadership development". Never going to happen unless the HR person
creates a business case that shows them: "Let me tell you what will happen if we don't put
money in leadership." So so the first thing an HR person can do is create a felt need
a burning desire within. "Oh, I never thought about that. You're right. Musk... Musk could
come anytime and disrupt." "Yeah, we need leaders that know how to do that." Okay, so one is
create a felt need. The second is to be connected throughout the ecosystem, on capabilities
that you could bring into play. And then the third is just to play big and make it happen.
And not just focus on current leaders but, leaders on the bench.