SHAABA LOTUN: I knew that my family would never let me have relationships, let alone be in a relationship with
someone who is trans. Worked out, seven years later and we’re planning our wedding, right?
JAMIE RAINES: Yeah, it worked out for the best.
JAMIE RAINES: We first met in college and apparently, I was rude.
SHAABA LOTUN: You were. I said ‘Hi’ to you and you blanked me and you were too busy with your own friends.
JAMIE RAINES: This has been something we’ve agreed to disagree on for the past seven years.
SHAABA LOTUN: Also, probably worth mentioning at this point that Jamie was pre-Jamie.
JAMIE RAINES: Pre-Jamie. SHAABA LOTUN: He hadn’t transitioned yet.
JAMIE RAINES: No, no.
JAMIE RAINES: Looking back, I genuinely just thought I was one of the boys. Then puberty happened and that
was when everything just fell apart a bit and was very dramatic and I wasn’t happy. I’d never heard of trans
people, I’d never seen a trans person knowingly and there’s this documentary about a young trans guy who
was the same age as me at the time and it just like, flicked the switch. And I was like, “Oh my God, that, that
explains how I’ve been feeling.” I was like, from that moment like, I just knew it was right.
JAMIE RAINES: The first person I came out to was my mum, I think sixish months after I’d like, figured things
out myself. And then it was a couple of months later that I told all my friends.
JAMIE RAINES: I told Shaaba at like, my parent's shed like we used to play music in the back shed.
SHAABA LOTUN: That sounds so cringe Jamie, oh my God!
JAMIE RAINES: Yeah, yeah.
JAMIE RAINES: She was probably one of the people I was like, most scared to tell because I knew your family’s
opinion, but I didn’t know yours so I wasn’t sure how open Shaaba was going to be to it. But you were great.
SHAABA LOTUN: Thank you.
JAMIE RAINES: Like, you were really good. Shaaba was the first person who like, got my name and pronouns
down and never made a mistake from that day that I told you. You literally never messed up once.
SHAABA LOTUN: You’re welcome.
SHAABA LOTUN: We had obviously a discussion about whether we could still be friends because my mum’s
family had a very strict rule that I was not to make friends with any guys. And in my defence, I didn’t actively
do that like, I wasn’t to know that my best friend was, you know, identified as male so, yeah.
JAMIE RAINES: Sorry. SHAABA LOTUN: That’s all right.
SHAABA LOTUN: So, my family background is a little bit different I would say. When I was quite young,
my mum and dad separated. My dad married a white lady and lives quite a western lifestyle.
My mum remarried to a very Asian guy and lives a very Asian lifestyle. They’re very strict, they also identify as
Muslim so there’s a lot of religious sort of like rules and traditions to follow too. It was really weird growing up
because I had the two polar opposite dynamics.
JAMIE RAINES: When I came out as trans and like, Shaaba accepting it completely,
our friendship dynamic did change.
JAMIE RAINES: Yeah, I had fancied Shaaba for a while before I told her. I think I kind of, always had a little thing
like from when I first met her, I had a feeling there was something going on where we were a bit more than
friends. But I had no idea if it was actually real or if I was just imagining it because I wanted it to be happening.
SHAABA LOTUN: Well it was a difficult one like, I did genuinely love you as a friend, you know. Like we’d spent
so much time together and I think you’re right. There were a few things that we had done, I mean it was so silly
to the point where before you’d even come out, I’d be like “Ah if only you were a guy.”
Like, “I’d marry you straightaway” like, these jokey things because we just got on so well.
JAMIE RAINES: And friends saying, “Oh you’re like, an old married couple.”
SHAABA LOTUN: Yeah, all the time.
JAMIE RAINES: So, this is for our friend Katie, she turned 25 yesterday and she’s coming over today.
So, a present, it's half of her presents, the other one didn’t arrive in time, typical postage you know.
I’ve known Katie for about eight years, a little bit over eight years. We went to college together because we
made friends at the same time.
SHAABA LOTUN: Kobe was actually the one that introduced us.
JAMIE RAINES: We didn’t tell our friends straightaway. We kept the entire relationship quite secret except from
our like, closest friend Katie. Like, we told her and she was adorable, she was properly like,
“Oh my God, yay! You guys are together”. That’s her now, wow. SHAABA LOTUN: Sorry.
KATIE O’BRIEN: I didn’t know he was trans, I knew he wasn’t into men at the time and that was about it.
And then it wasn’t until probably a good year or so later that you then just went, you just said,
“Oh yeah like, I’m trans”, I was like, “Okay.” JAMIE RAINES: Yeah.
KATIE O’BRIEN: I think everyone initially found it difficult like, switching pronouns, didn’t they?
JAMIE RAINES: Pronouns are weird yeah. KATIE O’BRIEN: Everybody but and then you just kind of
get used to it and just, Jamie was a good choice. JAMIE RAINES: Thank you.
SHAABA LOTUN: In the first couple of years of our relationship, we kept it quiet for a few months.
Jamie sent me a really soppy New Year’s text, it was sweet. My mum had my phone and she saw the
message and all hell broke loose. She’s just like, “My daughter is a lesbian” and just sort of told my
whole family who were very unimpressed. It was quite difficult because after that point, there was just
constant pressure to break up with Jamie. When they realised that that wasn’t going to happen, they sort of
provided me with an ultimatum of like, “Well you either see your family or you carry on living this very shameful lifestyle."
SHAABA LOTUN: I got to a point where I was kind of, disowned for a little while and I left the house. Because I
had nowhere to go, your family very kindly took me in.
SHAABA LOTUN: I don’t hold it against her. JAMIE RAINES: No.
SHAABA LOTUN: I’m glad she’s moved on from it. JAMIE RAINES: Yeah.
CHRISTINA RAINES: I suppose in the early days with Shaaba’s family, we didn’t have what I would call a
relationship. I don’t, you know, obviously they had problems with Jamie and Shaaba’s relationship.
I think we certainly have a very good relationship with her mum now.
SHAABA LOTUN: So, it was about four years, I think, before my mum even contemplated talking to me about
Jamie. Although it was really bad, I do completely understand she was just doing what she was brought up to do.
CHRISTINA RAINES: First thing I think, if I say it now is that Jamie and Shaaba are a real strong team.
They’re very supportive of each other. They do seem very much in love.
SHAABA LOTUN: Since the engagement party though and your bottom surgery.
JAMIE RAINES: Yeah, but it's been, it's really been in the last year and a half that things have like, just accelerated
so much and it's far lot more natural, very friendly, genuine friendliness, genuine like, between people.
SHAABA LOTUN: It's fantastic.
JAMIE RAINES: So, we’re planning on actually getting married next year.
SHAABA LOTUN: It's a dream come true. I never thought we’d be at the place that we are.
SHAABA LOTUN: For the first few years of our relationship, all we did was fight against people who
were saying, “No, you can’t be doing this.”
SHAABA LOTUN: It's really important for me at least to show actually it can and it's bloody cool
because we’re doing it anyway.