-Our next guest is a Pulitzer Prize-winning
and Tony-nominated playwright
whose critically acclaimed new musical "A Strange Loop"
is currently on Broadway at the Lyceum Theater.
Fresh off the musical's 11 Tony nominations,
please welcome to the show, Michael R. Jackson, everybody.
[ Cheers and applause ]
♪♪
How are you, Michael? -I'm doing pretty great, Seth.
-You've already won a Pulitzer.
You are now nominated 11 times for the Tony Award.
Is it sinking in exactly how people have responded
to your show?
-It's sinking.
I don't know if it's quite gotten there yet,
but it's there.
-It is really, really exciting.
And I think one of the things that's coolest about this show
is when people comment on it, they stress how unique it is.
Were you setting out to make a show that was unique,
compared to what we tend to find on Broadway?
-I mean, when I first set out to work on this show,
I was 23 years old.
I was just writing, like, a sort of life raft for myself.
So I don't -- and I definitely wanted it to be,
you know, specific and and nuanced and complex,
but I had no real thoughts
about what anybody else would think about it.
-So did that put less pressure on you, because you weren't
setting out to, you know,
make this thing that would take the world by storm?
-Yeah, because like back then, no one cared who I was.
[ Laughter ] Like, at all.
So I was like, I'll just do whatever I want.
-And you've referred to it
as not autobiographical, but self-referential.
What is the distinction there?
-For me, autobiography sort of suggests
that there's a 1-to-1 ratio of events to my life,
and I would say it's more emotionally autobiographical.
I felt everything that the protagonist feels,
but we have different life experiences
and the details are different.
-So it is about an usher named Usher?
-Mm-hmm. -You were a Broadway usher.
-I was, indeed.
-Do you feel like that was a skill,
or an experience, I should say,
that made you more skilled in trying to write
a musical like this?
-Yes, because I didn't want to usher anymore,
so I needed to write something that could, like,
propel me out of that life.
-Yeah, but would you --
I mean, did you get a chance
to see show after show after show?
-Oh, I saw more than show after show after show.
I mean, I was like constantly at the back,
you know, at the back of the house of "The Lion King"
night after night, watching the animals,
watching the animals.
Watching, you know, the people down the aisles.
-Usher in the show names names.
There are some real people that are commented on.
-For sure. -Did you think
in the writing, ever,
"Oh, I might have to take this out one day if --"
-I did, and then, like --
there was this one draft where I think I changed
the name to like, "Skyler Terry."
And I was like, and then my director was like,
"Get the hell out of here. You're not doing that."
So we left it the same.
And then ever since then, I felt like I had full permission.
-That's very nice.
So the song tonight is called "Inner White Girl."
And so, again, this is self-referential.
This is something that is true of you.
Can you speak a little bit about what this song is about?
-Yeah, I sort of as a teenager, was like,
as angsty as you could get.
And I was like, just coming out and, like, feeling,
you know, sad and emo all the time.
And of course, into Tori Amos via my cousin who, like,
gave me her first two albums,
"Little Earthquakes" and "Under the Pink."
And I sort of one night turned all the lights off,
put my headphones on, get under the covers,
and then Tori Amos starts singing to me,
and I was a goner.
[ Laughter ]
-We were also talking backstage about
our shared love affair for Liz Phair as well.
-Yeah, Liz Phair was in my twenties,
when I was just feeling, like, even more emo,
but a little more punk rock about it.
-Yeah.
-And, like, wandering around New York City,
just like, hating everything in my life and everyone.
And Liz is really good music to have for you,
for that and on that.
-Yeah, I agree.
I think she's the closest thing I have
to an inner white girl, is Liz Phair.
That is the most I've listened to on headphones.
I feel like she makes you feel very cool
for hating everything.
-She does, because she has such a, like,
a really badass sense of humor and a lot of candor
as she sort of speaks about her experiences
through the characters in her songs.
-This is also very exciting.
It's no Pulitzer, mind you,
but you saw Tori Amos in concert last night.
-Yes.
-Tonight you are going again, backstage.
You're going to meet her for the first time.
-I'm gonna meet her tonight.
-How do you think it's going to go?
What are you worried about or excited about?
-I'm worried that I might, you know, cry all over...
[ Laughter ]
...like, everything that she's wearing
and make a complete imbecile of myself.
-What are her expectations?
Is she aware of what a big part of the show she is
and a big part of your story?
-I don't think so.
I think I've kept that pretty close to the vest,
because then she might not let me come back and see her.
[ Laughter ]
-Now, after the success of the show,
it must be so exciting.
It was this Monday when you find out about all the nominations.
Like, do you now have --
what is your anticipation leading up to the Tonys?
Is it mostly just excitement?
Do you think you'll get nervous as it gets closer?
-I'll definitely get nervous,
but it's excitement, for me, because, like,
I get to celebrate so many of the people in my company.
And that, for me, in a lot of ways,
was way more exciting than any nomination I got,
because I've been working with a lot of these people
in the cast for up to 15 years, and on this show.
And so, getting to celebrate them,
for me, is going to be, like, the best part.
-So this is, I mean, I think this is really --
because I think people might read about this show
and hear about this show and think that this was, like,
an overnight success. -Oh, yeah. So overnight.
-I think that's a really important thing for people.
-Yeah, George W. Bush had like, just been re-elected --
re-elected or elected, when I was first working on this.
-Yeah, so sometimes I think it's a good --
I don't know, a good reminder that sometimes you have to
put your nose to the grindstone and push through a lot of stuff.
-Yeah, I think, like, for me,
the thing that I learned about making art
in working on this piece is that it's worth it to take your time.
And that's something I always tell, like, young students
when I talk to them, and they're ready
to, like, put their work on an assembly line and for it to,
you know, chart number one 2 minutes later,
I'm like, "No, I spent 18 years working on a musical,
so good luck."
[ Laughter ]
-Do you think if you looked back --
I mean, I'm sure you still have it,
but how massively different is what it is now
versus the first time you put it down on the page?
-I mean, it's different in the sense that,
like, when I started it, it was a monologue,
and now it's a musical.
But, like, the core ideas and the feelings that
I was trying to capture are the same.
So I've been sort of really trying to track that
all the way from the beginning.
-Well, I'm very excited that we get to see
a performance tonight.
And thank you so much for being here.
Congratulations on everything.
-Michael R. Jackson, everybody.
"A Strange Loop" is playing at the Lyceum Theater,
and you can now stream tracks
from the Broadway cast recording.