It may sound like a lofty thing to say, but basically
you know, what are we doing on this planet? I think through the "Beatles-Experience",
that we had, we've grown so many years within a short period of time. I had experienced so many
things, I met so many people, but I realized, there was nothing actually, that was giving me
a "buzz" any more! I wanted something better. I remember thinking: I'd love to meet somebody,
who will really impress me! I don't mean, because somebody like, you know, Burt Lancaster,
cuz he was in a movie... I mean, I met Burt Lancaster, and he impressed me on that level.
But I meant somebody, who could REALLY impress me! And that's when I met Ravi (Shankar), which
was funny, because he's this little fella with an obscure instrument, from our point of view.
And yet, it led me into such depths, and I think that's the most important thing. It still is for
me. You know, I get confused when I look around at the world and I see everybody's running around.
And, you know, as Bob Dylan said: "He not busy being born, is busy dying"! And yet,
nobody's trying to figure out, what's the cause of death. And what happens when you die? I mean,
that to me is the only thing really, that's of any importance! The rest is all secondary. J.F.: "Do
you think, part of the musicians are afraid to deal with subjects that are so big, or it just
doesn't occur to them? Or do people think: Oh, it's not commercial enough, who wants to talk
about life itself?" I don't know what anybody else thinks. And, you know, as the years had gone by,
I seem to have found myself more and more out on a limb, as far as that kind of thing goes. I mean,
even close friends of mine, they maybe don't want to talk about it, because they don't understand
it. But I believed in the thing, that I read years ago, which I think was in the Bible, it said:
"Knock, and the door will be opened". And it's true! If you want to know anything in this life,
you just have to knock on the door. Whether that be some physically on somebody else's door and ask
them a question, or - which I was lucky to find - it's the meditation. It's all within! Because,
if you think about it, there isn't anything... I mean, in creation, the whole of creation, is
perfect! You know, there is nothing, that goes wrong with nature. Only what man does,... then
it goes wrong! But we are made of that thing. The very essence of our being, of every atom in our
body, is made from this perfect knowledge, this perfect consciousness! But superimposed on that
is - if I can use the word? - "the tidal wave of bulls**t" that goes through the world. Yeah,
we were being barraged by bulls**t. But not only that. The way the world is structured, or the way
creation is structured, we have duality which says: yes/no, good/bad, loss/gain, birth/death.
And it's a circle, that you get trapped in. It's like the Memphis Blues again...
and that's the hardest thing to understand: What is causing both of these things? What's causing
day and night, good and bad? It's all the cause and this is the effect. So, I mean,
we're getting really transcendental here... - But to say, that our physical being is really
on a very, very subtle level, it's just like the sap in a tree. It is the sap, and it runs
throughout all the parts of the tree. Now, it's like that our bodies are manifesting into
physical bodies, but the cause - the sap - is pure consciousness, pure awareness and that is perfect
and perfect knowledge! But we have to tap into that, to understand it. And that's really why
for me this record (from Ravi Shankar) is important, because it's another little
key to open up the within for each individual. To be able to see it and turn off your mind,
relax and float downstream. J.F.: "And why do you think that it drove you to search for something
deeper, as opposed to someone like Elvis, who had a hard time handling it?" Actually Elvis,
I think, looked for something deeper too. Because I know that he was at different times involved
with different organizations and... I mean, what is sad about Elvis compared to the Beatles:
Elvis - I always saw it -, the problem for him was, that he was the ONLY one,
who had that experience! We were like "hippies", you know, so it takes more
people to share that experience. I mean, the four of us all experienced the thing and in a way we
gained strength and supported each other in the turmoil. I think fame is a good thing in terms of
giving you a heightened experience, or at least more experience!
But then it's what you do with that or what that uncovers? I think for me, as I say, I realized,
I want, I just want more! This isn't it, this isn't it. Fame is not the goal,... money, you
know., although money is nice to have, it can buy you a bit of freedom, you can go to the Bahamas,
when you want. But it's not the answer, and the answer is: How to get peace of mind and how to
be happy! That's really, what we're supposed to be here for and the difficult thing is, that we
all go through our lives and through our days, and we don't experience bliss! And it's a very
subtle thing to experience that and to be able to know, how to do that, is something you don't just
stumble across, you've got to search for it! J.F.: "Did you experience bliss on stage or in
the studio? In a way, did performing put you in touch with that bliss?" Well, we had happiness
at times, but not the kind of bliss I mean, where like every atom of your body is just
buzzing, you know. Because it's - again -, it's beyond the mind! It's like,
it's when there's no thought involved. I mean, it's a pretty tricky thing, to try to get to
that state. Because it means controlling the mind and being able to transcend the relative states
of consciousness. Waking-sleeping-dreaming, which is all we really know! But there is another state,
that goes beyond all that, and it's in that state, that's where the bliss and
the knowledge that's available is.
J.F.: "You know the one benefit concert, that you've done in England in the past,
20 years or so ago, was for the "Natural Law Party"(NLP) back in 1992.
What brought that about? Well it was... One of the things, that made it easier,
was: I'd just done a tour in Japan with Eric Clapton's band. So I was kind of up to speed with
the songs, that I was doing, and the band was there, that knew all the material.
But that was, I think, there was a general election going on. And as far as I'm concerned,
whichever... You know, Neil Innes from "The Rutles" wrote a song once, and he said:
"No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in." You know in England, you always get,
as far as I was concerned, the left, the centre and the right. They're all really the same!
They're all different shades of the same grayness. And although it's a long shot, you know Maharishi
tried to get these people formed together into a party, which would be
called the "Natural Law Party"... J.F.: "The same Maharishi Mahesh Yogi"
...and the idea behind it really is, to have consciousness as the basic thing. Because,
we get in government, or we get in any situation in life. we get the reflection of our own
consciousness. We can't really complain about what we have, because that is US! It's a reflection of
our own being. Now, if we could have people, who are actually conscious, in a spiritual sense,
then all the underlying problems to society... I mean it wouldn't be able to change just overnight,
but over a generation or two generations you could have things,... for instance, say in England and
i'm sure it's the same here, you get disease. So you've got a lot of expenditure on hospitals
and on fixing up people, who have disease. Now the problem is, the most doctors, they study disease,
they don't know about health! So you need to reprogram stuff,, so that you
teach people about, how to be healthy. That way, you don't spend so much money on disease.
You'd have,... people would be healthier! You wouldn't have such a requirement with all the
various things, that take up all the money. You'd be able to use that money for something else.
So the "Natural Law" that operates on this planet, or in the universe... As I said earlier,
everything works in a perfect order and there's a scheme to things, which has a
certain intelligence, that drives it and makes everything work. Now, if we, as individuals,
could go to that level of consciousness, where we can bring it into our being,
and as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi once said: "For a forest to be green, each tree must be green."
So it's not as just one or two people being like this. You'd have to make the whole of society,
that they had that understanding. And that's what I think, really you'd have to school people!
Right from being children. Teach people about their health, about their bodies,
about consciousness. Because it's all to do with consciousness!
Raise the level of consciousness. And then everything automatically becomes better! J.F.: "Do
you think, it can happen? Or do you think, people are totally on "autopilot" too much?"
It can happen, but it's something, which will take a long, long time, generations of people. I mean,
if you look now - just through say from the 60s or the 50s -, there's a lot more people,
thanks to say Indian music, thanks to rock and roll music, who have got much more understanding!
You go out there on the street now, you can find Indian spice shops, Indian restaurants
and places to go for yoga, for meditation. There's a much higher awareness generally
on those kinds of things. And so it is seeping through. I mean, where did all the really good
hippies go when they all dropped out? (".....") Well, I don't think all of them are! I think,
a lot of them brought up... there's probably two generations of kids now, who are much more open to
that type of consciousness, and they've been brought up by being vegetarian or whatever, that
helps the society become a much more balanced... It's all have to do with the BALANCE! We've got
too much of extreme going on! J.F.: "You're optimistic?" You have to be optimistic, you know.
J.F.: "Me too,... It's so funny, because when you talk to people it's down the middle: Those who
think, it's getting better, those who think, it's getting worse. And those are things reflected in
the music in all cases." It is getting better and worse, because that's the nature of relativity,
You know: good and bad, good and bad. But the individual, if the individual gets that
consciousness, then it doesn't matter, because, in a way, you can retain the balance between the
good and the bad. Because really: Good and bad are the same! They are. It's the same sort of thing,
so it's like in the middle is the safe path.
Ravi Shankar: "It is strange, to see pop musicians with sitars.
I was confused at first.
It had so little to do with our classical music.
When George Harrison came to me, I didn't know what to think.
But I found, he really wanted to learn!
I never thought, our meeting would cause such an explosion!
That Indian music would suddenly appear on the pop scene.
It's peculiar."