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I think I will have a Sonambula.
IVY MIX: Sure.
Do you have anything less pink?
No.
All right then.
That's great.
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MIKE RUGNETTA: This episode of Idea Channel
is brought to you by Squarespace.
So for this episode of Idea Channel
we're doing something a little bit different.
We're at Leyanda, which is a bar in Carroll Gardens
Brooklyn that is co-owned and operated by my longtime friend
Ivy Mix.
Thank you so much for having us.
Thank you for being here.
The thing that I'm super curious about
is what containers we put cocktails in,
and why we choose those containers for certain drinks.
But before we get started, would you
mind telling us a little bit about yourself and the bar?
I started bartending like 11 years
ago during Bennington, where we both went to school.
We have a spring term and a fall term, but at Bennington
we also had a winter term where we did work in our field.
And you went to Guatemala?
IVY MIX: Guatemala
Yeah.
Yeah, so I went there because I wanted
to get out of the country.
I wanted to learn a foreign language.
I wanted to save the children.
All of the things that people want to do in Latin America,
and instead I walked into a bar and really liked it.
Then I racked up a bill there so large
over the subsequent two months that I
had to start bartending to pay it off.
So speaking of getting things together in a glass,
I'm sure that there is a practical function
for every different kind of glass,
and that there's also this sort of like artistic meaning
that's behind them, what they communicate.
But I want to start with what is maybe a dumb question,
and that is why isn't every cocktail just served
in the same glass?
You know, I think that frequently that would be best.
Really?
Yeah, because half the times-- I would say more than half.
I would say 95% of the time that people
are choosing the glass for their cocktail is just mmm that one.
You know?
Sometimes the choice of glassware
can be a little daunting.
Is it utilitarian?
Is it practical?
People who make cocktails really should but frequently don't
think about how your glassware is
going to affect your cocktail.
So that is something that we I would
love to talk with you at length about.
All right, let's do it.
But before we do it, how would you
feel about making us some cocktails in some glasses.
IVY MIX: Let's do it.
Yes.
IVY MIX: Let's do it.
I'm going to start off by making a Sazerac for you.
Most people now have heard of a Sazerac, a la "Mad Men," a la
everything else.
The Sazerac traditionally is made
in kind of a glass like this, right, stackable, double rocks
glass, kind of all utilitarian purpose.
It's like you know, like a quarter of an inch of liquid.
It's like this high up.
So this cocktail, in my opinion, has always
been made in not the right glass.
Why are you using a rocks glass?
Sazerac you never have with ice.
IVY MIX: You never have with ice, right.
This is just a more appropriate glass
because it funnels your smell right to your nose, right.
So if you go like this, it's going to be--
and as you're smelling and sniffing,
it's going to all go right here.
It's just literally you can see it.
It's like I'm going this way.
As opposed to this one, which it just dissipates out.
And this one is like I'm going that way.
Yeah, and this one makes it much more
appropriate for a cocktail that's
all about what you're smelling and not necessarily
what you're tasting.
Because all of that absinthe, all those lemon oils
aren't really in the drink, it's just what you're smelling.
But when you smell something and eat something,
it affects the way you taste it.
Yeah.
I'm going to make a drink now, which
is probably the most iconic drink, the Martini.
Right now the Martini drink kind of symbolizes the 9 ounce
Martinis, this huge Martini glasses
that you literally could fit your face into and be like yum.
MIKE RUGNETTA: Stemmed glasses, precarious.
IVY MIX: Precarious at best.
If you just look at it and it goes like this, which means
it's more prone to flip out of the glass to spill,
but no one should drink that much Martini.
B, it gets warm.
C, as we've discussed just now, the glass itself,
it's just totally impractical and doesn't make any sense.
It's not doing anything extra.
It's not bringing any kind of like--
It is taking away completely, 100% from the drink.
So this is definitely not a Martini glass?
No, this is not a Martini glass.
This is a glass called a Nick and Nora.
Nick and Nora were kind of a popular Hollywood couple
and they were popularized in Hollywood
as being socialites, pretty much.
Like a little bit more higher class, parties,
endless Martinis.
You know but back in the '30s, '40s, kind of post-war, people
were drinking Martinis out of glasses like this.
It's so dainty.
IVY MIX: So dainty.
You think about that time, people
had like the four Martini lunch, because they
were drinking 2 ounce Martinis.
They weren't drinking 9 ounce Martinis.
That's really interesting.
Right, so this is kind of where we want to be going.
The whole super size me cocktail movement is not good.
This is very reasonable.
Very reasonable.
OK, so the next drink on the list is the Sonambula.
IVY MIX: Sonambula.
MIKE RUGNETTA: Which I said correctly?
IVY MIX: You did indeed.
MIKE RUGNETTA: Yes.
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For better or for worse, people have conversations
about everything being masculine and feminine,
even the coupe, which this glass goes in
was theoretically modeled after Marie Antoinette's breast.
MIKE RUGNETTA: Really?
IVY MIX: Really.
MIKE RUGNETTA: All right.
IVY MIX: People order a drink and they're like, oh my god.
MIKE RUGNETTA: It's like they don't know what it's coming in
and then it arrives.
And they're like, oh, it's a pink drink
and a-- you know, ah, I can't touch it.
And I'm like no, I think your masculinity can handle it.
The nice thing about a coupe is that it kind of
makes it elevated, no liquid is towards the bottom.
It brings up very high.
It makes it a little more fancy, but as far as a I own a bar
and I'm afraid of spending millions of dollars
on glassware, maybe not the best coupe, but super beautiful.
It looks rad.
Yeah, it's super beautiful.
This drink I'm going to make is the Boulevardier, very simple,
traditionally made with equal parts,
although I'm a drinker so I put more bourbon in my Boulevardier
than I do the other stuff.
MIKE RUGNETTA: I'm not going to complain.
It's in that class of-- I don't know if this is accurate
but it's in a class of like kind of tough drinks.
IVY MIX: I would call it a tough drink, yeah.
I mean you've got the bitterness.
You've got bourbon, tough.
Yep.
And sweet vermouth.
The Old Fashioned, the Negroni, the Boulevardier
are drinks that are actually made in the glass.
And traditionally, while whereas in cocktail culture
now, like we don't do them in the glass
here because I want to put it over that sexy big ice cube.
Right, sure.
IVY MIX: But you can and traditionally you
have just made them in the glass,
stirred it, and made it, which is why the rocks
glass is a dual purpose vessel.
Say this is like our utilitarian example,
right like this is like a robust drink.
It comes in a rocks glass.
I called it a tough drink, yeah.
Right, a tough drink.
Someone's manhood is not to be threatened by this,
you know it's very like oh, I can do.
Having these things around for that reason,
especially as a bar owner, you need
to make sure that you have all these options
for different people.
Because the worst thing you can do
in a bar is threaten someone's comfort,
and glassware is a really easy way
to give someone a hand in whatever they're drinking.
This is amazing, so thank you so much for making
all of these cocktails.
I would love to talk more generally
about some of the stuff that we covered
like people's associations with cocktails
and how they develop those associations.
IVY MIX: Oh, the cerebral stuff.
You have been standing behind the bar
for no shortage of time.
And I think does your shift start in a couple hours?
In a little bit, yeah.
So we'll give you a chance to sit down.
Maybe we'll take a seat at a table.
All right, let's do it.
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Well, so first thing's first, cheers.
Salud.
Cheers, salud.
Mm.
That really is great.
I wanted to talk about your menu,
because you guys did a really specific thing with your menu.
So I was wondering if you could explain what it is
and why you did it?
The thing that always drives me the most crazy
is when people can't handle this drink.
So like they get served something that looks like that
and then grimace and sulk.
By they I mean men, in particular, are like oh no.
You know and they get really sad.
And they're like, can you make this
a little less pink and a little more not like that.
So we decided at Leyanda to do this kind of-- we
put the pictures of the glass that it comes
in next to the drink, hoping that we
would bypass some of that awkward conversation that
happens.
They know what they're getting themselves into, because
of the associations that they have with not just
the liquor and the drink in the liquid but what it comes in.
The perceptions that people have of these different containers,
do you have a sense of where those come from.
Pop culture is really the only way
to put it down, like almost everything else that we
go through in our lives.
There's something about society that
has taught us that this is the way that these things are used
and by whom.
You've got to be kidding.
Nobody throws a Sazerac.
We talked about this a little bit
when you were making a Martini and we
were talking about the classic Martini glass.
I feel like that's such a good case study.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like "Sex in the City"
and Cosmopolitans had a big impact on the attitude
towards that glass.
IVY MIX: Absolutely, that is true.
That I think is a big deal why people don't feel comfortable
going out and being like I want that pink drink,
because it connotates like five ladies going out in the city
and talking about Mr. Big.
MIKE RUGNETTA: That's what I'm saying, like I think--
Which is funny, because that type of glass
has been used for ages, and ages, and ages.
I think it was first seen in an art deco design expo.
It was kind of when the Martini glass theoretically first had
its first foray into the world.
MIKE RUGNETTA: I'd buy it, yeah.
But the Cosmopolitan is 100% the drink
that made cocktails cool again.
Really?
Absolutely.
I think the person who probably made it
the most popular was Dale DeGroff at the Rainbow Room.
That's really what sparked everything again.
I'm sure that when he was serving Cosmos
it was indeed in a Martini glass.
But until "Sex in the City" made it that social icon,
no one had an issue with it until that show.
Excuse me?
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Class I think is another aspect of this.
And I think the Martini glass is great at communicating
that, but then so is your favorite, the champagne flutes.
I don't like champagne flutes.
I think they're kind of ridiculous.
Yeah.
I think about where in media you
see the champagne flute being used
and it's almost always to indicate that someone is fancy
or is having a fan-- there's a fancy occasion of some kind.
IVY MIX: It's celebratory.
MIKE RUGNETTA: Yeah, it's celebratory.
My sense is that there is a class of people
or a type of person who has become either so
wealthy or important they can afford
to drink their champagne out of a silly glass.
So I think this maybe gets to the sort of central question
that we're trying to talk about, which
is does a drink taste better in the right glass, whatever that
means.
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In order to ever have this conversation
now is you'll have to make a cocktail with a glass in mind.
I don't think that people have been doing that,
but I think it absolutely can be said that there are glasses
that make cocktails better.
Way, way, way, back, the most skilled and thus highest
paid glass blowers were the ones who
could blow things the thinnest and the most delicately,
and it could break like, just like that.
That was considered to be the best.
That's a sign of wealth.
It's a sign of all these things which--
It's disposable if it breaks.
It's like, oh, it doesn't-- oh yeah.
Who needs it?
But everyone's like oh my god, don't break that thing,
you know.
And if you get something in that glass it's like, yay!
MIKE RUGNETTA: So I mean to a certain degree that
is it's like the drink does taste better,
but weirdly it has nothing to do with taste.
It has to do with you feeling like I--
Totally.
---am going to have a great time because I feel fancy holding
onto this.
Their perceptions are already going into that thing,
and that's what glassware does that nothing else can do.
Utilitarian, you can make it so it's
better for your nose or whatever,
but just aesthetically, what are people seeing.
And what are they bringing to--
To whatever their perceptions bring to the table, which
is why I put this right here.
It's great to think about this not as a warning patrons
but as empowering them with information.
In the end the day, this is the hospitality industry
and you will never succeed if you
don't make your clientele feel somewhat safe and OK.
Right.
You know, if a guy feels uncomfortable with that pink
drink, if it's going to ruin his time here,
I'm certainly not going to make him drink that pink drink
in a [INAUDIBLE].
I'll be like, don't worry man.
I'll get you a bourbon on the rocks.
I got you.
If I can get them the right drink, in the right glass,
in the right scenario with the right smile or attitude
then that is the overall picture that's
going to make that drink better than just
some booze in a glass.
That is so great.
Ivy, thank you so much--
Yeah, of course.
---and for talking to me about this.
I have learned a bunch--
Awesome.
---and now I'm excited about to drink some cocktails.
Me too.
So if you guys want to follow Ivy on Instagram or Twitter,
you can find her @ivymix.
And if you want to follow Leyanda,
we'll put links to their social media in the description.
All right, well thank you so much Ivy.
Thank you.
Let us know what you think about cocktails, the vessels
they are served in, and their relationship
to popular culture in the comments
and I will respond to some of them
in next week's comment response video.
In this week's comment response video
we talk about your thoughts regarding Jar Jar
Binks being a sith master.
If you want to watch that one you can click right here
or find a link in the doobly doo.
A small bit of news, I'm going to be at South by Southwest
this weekend in Austin, so if you are there
I will also be there.
Say hey if you see me, I guess.
I have a panel on Monday morning about the intersection
of marketing and fandoms.
And then we're doing a PBS Digital Studios host meet-up
from 2:00 to 3:00, so all of those things are in the South
by schedule and we'll also put links
in the description for those as well.
We have a Facebook, an IRC, and a subreddit links
in the place where the links go.
And the tweet of the week comes from threeoclocktea,
who points us towards an article about the naming
controversies related to George Lucas's involvement
in various "Star Wars" properties.
So we knew about Darth Icky.
We knew that that was a joke that we were making,
but I did not realize the scope of the problem.
There are some-- there were some funny names that
were in the pipeline.
You should check it out.
It's very funny.
And hey, in case you were wondering,
this episode of Idea Channel is supported by Squarespace.
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And last but certainly not least,
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