Hello and welcome to Stumped, your intercontinental hit of news,
features, and debate from the quirky world of cricket. I'm Alison Mitchell in London,
just about recovered from the first Test match of the summer with England men beating
New Zealand at Lord's. I'm about to head up to Nottingham for Test number two. In between times,
a bit of drama on the motorway on my way to pick up my eight-year-old niece from school;
I had a tyre blowout on the motorway. Thank you to the rescue teams who came out and I didn't
have to wait long sandwiched between the slip road and the hard shoulder, but I really don't
recommend it. It was a little bit dramatic, but it could have been a lot worse.
Glad you're okay, Ali. Yes, Brett Sprigg for the ABC in Sydney pondering the question if a bilateral T20 series
happens in Sri Lanka, at the same time as one of Australia's biggest domestic football events,
does it make a sound? Well, in terms of mainstream news interest down under, not exactly. The Aussie
men winning that series is just one little step on the road to their World Cup defence later in
the year but given Sri Lanka are ranked ninth in that format, I don't think we'll get too far ahead of ourselves.
I don't know I think Sri Lanka a pretty tough at home despite all the problems
that they're currently going through. And I hope Australia do last the tour. Ali, I'm glad it wasn't
worse, you know, because these tyre blowouts can sometimes be terrible. I'm Charu Sharma for
All India Radio. I'm in Rajkot once again, baking in the local heat. And of course, we're in the final
stages of the Saurashtra Premier League and I know it sounds like a small one off the IPL. This is
season two and by the way, in case you don't know there are some big shot cricketers in this part
of the country. For instance, Ravindra Jadeja, one of the biggest stars here, Cheteshwar Pujara
who of course did a lot damage in the county cricket stint that he just played. But of course,
all the attention now on the T20 series against South Africa and by the way, one of the big guns,
the Queen, retires from Indian cricket. We will absolutely talk about Mithali Raj later
in the programme, but you mentioned white-ball cricket, Charu. And that's what we're going
to start by asking the question as to whether white-ball cricket is the future of the game.
That's because in a wide-ranging interview in the last week with the BBC's Test Match Special,
the chair of the International Cricket Council, Greg Barclay, has cast doubts over the direction
of Test cricket for women in particular, saying the traditional format will not "be part of the
landscape moving forward to any real extent." Barclay says "if you look strategically at the
way cricket is going there is no doubt that white-ball cricket is the way of the future."
Now, Barkley was elected in 2020 after being a director of New Zealand cricket for the previous
eight years. He also warned in the same interview that there could be a reduction in the volume of
men's Test cricket in the near future. But what of the future then of the women's game and women's
Test game in particular, will it survive? Well, Australia World Cup winner Jess Jonassen reacted
on Twitter saying "well it won't without genuine support from the top. Disappointing to see these
comments. The hunger and drive is there from multiple countries regardless of some significant
hurdles that need to be overcome by some." She goes on to say "it should never be solely about money."
Well, never mind surviving, women's Test cricket has actually had something of a revival in
the last couple of years. If you think Australia, England and India have all played these one-off
Tests as part of multi-format point series. And that was a concept that was first brought in for
the women's Ashes. A number of those matches, most of them have been televised, and they've provided
some cracking viewing as well; tight, intriguing contests, even though they've all ended in draws
over the course of the scheduled four days. But Brett, since 2017, I mentioned Australia,
England and India, but South Africa are facing England later this month. That'll be their first
Test since 2014. The women want to play and they want to test themselves in the ultimate format, don't they?
Absolutely. And it's not nice to see a sort of indifference about the future women's
Test cricket when there are so many, including the players, that are so passionate about it.
It's worth noting, of course, that there are still no red-ball pathways for players in places like
Australia and England who do play women's Test cricket occasionally. And look, the counterpoint
to this, I actually enjoy the fact that these Test matches are played by players that are established
white-ball cricketers. For example, I was commentating in Canberra, the Ashes Test. England
were five or six down, needing a run a ball to stage a successful run chase, and I thought,
well, thank goodness, it's Nat Sciver going out to bat because we know she can tonk the ball around a
bit. If we had a Test specialist out there that scenario, I'm not sure we would have got the
same sort of finish, which really encouraged the appetite for more Test cricket. So, it's a strange
balancing act. I like that Test matches are still a novelty on the calendar. And I would also be
mindful of making some of those nations like the so called 'Big Three' too strong, while other
nations get left behind. If they say that Test cricket isn't a priority in lieu of helping other
developing nations simply get up to speed in the other formats, then to some degree I understand,
but it would be nice if they can find a way to do both, of course.
Yeah, Charu, as Brett has said, no red-ball cricket is played anywhere in the world in the women's game. It is all about
the white-ball game to develop cricket. But then ultimately, if players want to have aspirations,
then is too much emphasis being put on revenues as to whether Tests are money making ventures, rather
than actually what the cricketers want? And not quashing aspiration and ambition.
Well, listen, I don't mean to be excessively light-hearted here, but I also want a mansion of 10,000
rooms. It's not possible. What does the word economics mean to people? Can people understand
that the world is essentially market driven? But then we'd have no men's Tests either, would we?
I've got to preface this by saying that listen, I personally love Test match cricket, we've all
grown up on it. But if that's the way the game is evolving, that is the way the game is evolving.
Either the cricketers run it for themselves, get all the revenues, organise all the matches,
or let people who are the custodians of the game understand where the commerce is going. And the
commercial parts are all towards white-ball cricket, because that's where the revenues are
coming from. And that's what people would like to support, then the game has no choice really,
we can't hang on to the past. I mean, we can't say I love a horse cart ride,
so we should only have horse carts because they're more environmentally friendly, I don't know.
So, the world moves on. And cricketers, particularly from a certain era have to
realise that. I love it, for heaven's sake, I'll say it again before I get told or whatever,
but the world is moving in certain directions and cricket needs to move in that direction just
be able to be relevant anymore. Because you talk about England, Australia, maybe India, but I mean,
do we want to really restrict it and constrict it into a three or four country game again?
It's all about expansion, isn't it? And if white-ball is the only way, if not the
easiest way, to expand then that's where the world of cricket will necessarily go, whether you like it or not.
Well, I feel as if the women's game is evolving backwards in a sense,
because they're starting with white-ball cricket and actually moving up towards the Test game
and rather than thinking of Test cricket being something in the past for women, actually,
rather feel as if playing a one off Test within a multi format series is something actually quite
futuristic. It's quite a modern way of presenting Test cricket. Well, let's turn to the men's game
and a Test match that did excite and enthral by the end, particularly for England fans. Ben Stokes
won his first ever match as England Test captain with a long-awaited victory over New Zealand
at Lord's, but it was his predecessor who stole the plaudits. Not only did Joe Root hit a match
winning 115 not out against the world champions, but he also entered the 10,000 runs club.
It doesn't get much more special than that does it, a century at the home of cricket to give your side
a much needed win and join that exclusive club of just 14 batters to have reached the milestone of
10,000 Test runs. Root's got 10,015 test runs at the moment, Sachin Tendulkar finished with 15,921.
Do you think Root could catch him? Yes, why not? Because you know he's a batsman, he's not
bowling, he's in good shape. And if he continues to score through a purple patch as he's been enjoying for
the past, what 12 months or more, it'll just takes another five years or less, four years to
get there because he's scored so many. Of course it's a big ask. In this whole business about
captaincy or not, I wonder what the relevance is, because even when he was captain, he was scoring
prolifically. So, maybe there's no monkey off his back or nothing that such a moment you talk about
was an iconic moment because of what happened just a shade before. But, I wonder if Sachin
really remembers that because he's created so many records and so many moments in his long career.
But you know, how much hunger does Root have now without the captaincy? Has it improved his mindset
to the point where he said, 'well, I'm scoring freely, I'm happy to play for as long as possible
for England as long as I'm selected'? The 15,000 run mark is there and it's not too far off. I
mean, it might have taken a long time to get here, but if he's in good shape, why not?
It sounds like basic sports psychology, but history is on Joe Root's side. If he is not a captain, he can expect
a fruitful period of his career. You mentioned Sachin Tendulkar, as another Indian example in
Sourav Ganguly. He averaged a full seven or eight runs more after he handed back the captaincy.
David Gower and Nasser Hussain are other English examples. I did prepare these earlier,
and Stephen Fleming in New Zealand was another. He's only 31 as Charu said, and still looks like
he's about 19, so he could have a further 5, 6, 7 years left of being this this world class, quality Test player.
Now here on Stumped, and across the cricketing world, we're saying goodbye to the
all-time leading run scorer in women's One Day Internationals. Legendary Indian batter Mithali Raj,
and former captain of course, has announced her retirement from international cricket at the
age of 39, having made her debut at just 16. She retires as the all-time leading run scorer with
7805 runs. I first saw her, I remember at the 2005 World Cup in South Africa, and she's just become
an iconic player since then. I remember the blue, wide brimmed sun hat, the extra cover drives,
they're going to be missed from the game, certainly. Charu, just give us an indication
of Mithali Raj's impact in India. Of course, she's turned out to be one of the biggest heroes
without doubt. I mean, there'll be other names as well, but Snehal Pradhan makes good point about not
enough media in the early part of her career. That's when some of the big milestones were achieved by
Mithali. But you know, she stuck on and on and we often trained at the same place in Bangalore when
she's there. So, I've kind of seen how hard she continues to work even now in the last year or so.
It's just that the ultimate highs sadly have not been achieved during her time. And I wondered that
is responsible for her decision of saying, 'Well, I'm gonna call it a day,' because had India won a
World Cup either with her as a captain or as a playing member, or even some other major title,
she might have felt much better about retiring. I'm sure there's all sorts of unrequited goals
as far as she's concerned. But her longevity is very Tendulkar-esque, if we can call it that over
almost 23 years, or a little more. And through all of it, she's been a team person. She's been quiet,
she's been exemplary and is definitely the reason why many more youngsters are taking to cricket
in India. I'm sure that her white-ball prowess is something that she may have
perhaps worked a little more at, because I'm sure she was waiting for red-ball cricket all
these years to showcase her true metal. But she's had to do it in white-ball cricket, which may or
may not have been her true calling. So that was a bit of a disconnect, because in white-ball cricket
very often, even at the women's game, it's all about the strike rate, isn't it? And although she
held the side together innumerable times, she was unable to lead them to the big wins maybe
because the runs didn't come quickly enough, but a true general of women's cricket in India.
I hope she has inspired many other generals to come around. Finally on Stumped, the International
Cricket Council gives out awards every year to nations that promote the development of cricket.
Awards range from Best Female Cricket Initiative and Best Digital Fan Engagement Programme
to the Best Performances of the year in both the men's and women's game amongst associate nations.
Each award has a regional winner before then a global winner is selected. And drumroll,
the winner of the global award for the Social Impact Initiative of the year - that's
a project that uses cricket as a vehicle for social change. The winner is Nigeria,
and here to tell us about is the president of the Nigerian Cricket Federation, Uyi Akpata. Welcome
to Stumped and congratulations on winning this award. Just tell us what the project involves.
Thank you very much, really glad to be here. And well, because you may say this project came about
as a mix of very great planning and maybe by accident. And the Nigerian Cricket Federation
when we came on board about four years ago, the new board, we set about this project of
reaching out to about 250,000 new kids every year, as part of our Niger Kids initiative. So,
what we had to do was to get where we get the critical mass. So, we had to head to schools and
luckily, we stumbled on the fact that a school, we did an IDP Camp in one particular location.
Whilst we went to the school, we found out that we could get the attention of about 2000
or more students next to there just by training those in the school. So, we now went into that camp, so it was
sort of accidental, but we saw that actually, the students or the children in that camp,
we actually show it a lot more attention. We decided to start a template in the Benin camp, one
of the sub nationals in Nigeria. That's what it came about the interest and enthusiasm of the kids
meeting aligned with our strategic objective of meeting different kids, was what kick started that
project. Three years down the line, we're making significant impact as it were.
Now, we all know that football is the big one in Nigeria, and you've done very well and enjoyed
watching the Super Eagles all these years. Where's cricket headed? Is it on the upswing?
Is it improving in popularity? Yes, it's on the upswing, but again, if you're moving from one to
two is easy to get to 200%. So rather than move from say maybe nine to 20 or thereabout, but yes,
that's the answer, because I said our objective is to reach out to 250,000 people each year. But,
midway, Covid and of course the impact prevented us from doing it. We already have aggressive
targets. We are waiting to see the outcome for this year. You will see that we actually see we
can double that number in one or two years. So, for instance, if we look at the number of schools
actively playing cricket today, it's more than four times it was 20 years ago when we taught
cricket was active. So, every year, we're running out and adding like 30 schools and reaching
numbers. There is a little bit of work to be done in terms of fans engagements, so you can see why
I was really excited joining this programme. So hopefully some of your 10 million to 20 million
listeners can join us, but we're getting in there. As I said, we have sustained partnerships with
press, government and more importantly, ICC bosses to achieve that.
Because of your athleticism, I have no doubt that Africa has massive potential, but are footballers supporting you, endorsing
the game as well? I do know that perhaps Wilfred Ndidi, or Alex Iwobi have been watching some
of the county cricket games in England. Is there a growing interest among the footballers as well, some endorsement?
Yes, we want that to really happen. But I'll tell you a story, because sometimes you need to have a right balance.
About three years ago, we had the ICC trophy tour in Nigeria, so there are a lot of people coming in to take pictures of the trophy.
Luckily, I had a friend who had close contacts with Jay-Jay Okocha. So, Jay-Jay Okocha came in and joined us
for the trophy tour. But at the end of it, we weren't really sure whether people wanted to take
pictures with the trophy or with Jay-Jay! There was that sort of mismatch. But on a serious note,
yes football is a popular one, so as part of our overall alignment, we're thinking about
relationships we have with footballers, such as Jay-Jay. We got him for free by doing that,
and musicians and artists that are actually very popular here. So some of our programmes
and initiatives will involve them as part of our strategic imperatives.
It's great to hear. Good luck with the expansion of the project and congratulations on the award
and thank you so much for joining us on Stumped. Thank you very much.
That's all we've got time for on this week stumped here on All India Radio. So my thanks to Charu Sharma and to Brett Sprigg,
and of course you for listening. You can follow us throughout the week on Twitter,
we're @BBCWSSport and use #BBCStumped; and watch us on YouTube as well. Just search for the BBC
World Service's YouTube channel. But until then, we'll see you next week. Bye for now.