>> Live from Mountain View, California,
it's theCUBE covering DevNet Create 2019
brought to you by Cisco.
>> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage
here in Mountain View, California
for the theCUBE's coverage of Cisco DevNet Create.
It's a small, intimate event
where we're bringing the cloud native creation world
with the DevNet community within Cisco
and of course building applications,
programming networks, that's the theme.
I'm John Furrier, your host, our next guest
is Darryl Sladden, senior technical product manager
at Cisco, 20 year veteran, built voice over IP systems.
He's a coder, he's a builder, he's a creator.
Great to see you, thanks for coming on.
>> Thank you so much, I'm glad to be here.
>> And you're a fan? >> I love being on theCUBE.
Because-- >> And the trivia behind that?
Share the context, you had a product, you built one?
>> Yes, the first product management job at Cisco
was building the Cisco Unified Border Element
and of course, that became the Cube,
so any time you mention Cube inside of Cisco,
that's going to be my product. >> The renaissance within Cisco
theCUBE is back and we're embedded in there.
Of course we're breaking all the borders down,
getting the data.
Tell us what's going on in your world?
Obviously you've seen a lot of waves.
I mean voice over IP that you were involved in?
>> Yeah. >> That took,
that old PBX telephone-- >> Right.
>> Got digital, created massive innovation.
That's an inflection point moment.
We're seeing a few of those big waves happening now.
One of them's an architectural changes
around IoT, Wi-fi 6, 5G, cloud computing
all coming together.
This is an interesting opportunity.
What's your focus?
Where do you fit into all that?
>> Yeah, where I fit in is this is a massive change
and one of the problem sets that hasn't been solved yet
is how do I understand where I am indoors?
There's been great solutions that have unlocked
huge amount of value with the GPS system outdoors.
You always know where you are,
a lot of way to find out exactly the right,
it always amazes me at how accurate they are
at how long it's going to take me
to get to the Computer Museum.
But how do I know once I've got into the museum
that theCUBE is in the upstairs, in the back corner?
That's where we need to solve that problem
and I think we're at the crux of that.
>> Waze is a great example because one of the things
I'm amazed by with Waze is how fast they report
the incidents that are going on.
People are so actively rapid of adding, inputting the data.
You got data junkies adding it
and there's been some side effects.
The side streets are always clogged.
(laughing)
>> Police always know-- >> So in physical locations
where Wi-fi 6 for instance comes out?
>> Yeah. >> You're going to have
new capabilities in bandwidth and throughput
and coverage areas, these dense areas.
It's going to create a navigation opportunity
for either machines to machines,
machines to humans, humans to machines,
humans to humans, within a physical construct.
>> Yeah.
>> How do you see that evolving?
Use cases?
What's the pattern? >> Right.
What I really see evolving is taking advantage
of some of the capabilities that have already existed
in wi-fi, meaning ranging from individual IPs
but some of the new things that are coming
with Wi-fi 6 is Wi-fi 6 creates a great baseline
but there are new things where,
802.11mc for example, which is an extension of Wi-fi 6,
has what's called fine timing measurement.
I can now, with these super accurate chip sets,
know the speed of light is about one nanosecond
to go about three feet.
If I have an accurate clock, now I can know
how far I am from the APs. >> Yeah.
>> And I can solve that in indoor locations.
>> So a lot of physics involved?
>> A lot of rates of physics involved.
>> Alright, so what products are you working on now
to make all this happen.
Take us through some of the things that are out there
that you've got your fingers on.
>> Yeah, so what I'm working on is Cisco's
new location platform, it's called Cisco DNA Spaces
and so what we're focusing on is digitizing
that indoor space.
So people spend of their economic activity are indoors.
Whether it's in a hotel, where they're selling the rooms,
or a restaurant where they're selling food
inside the spaces, but what goes on
in that physical space?
People don't have that same level of knowledge
that you do on the web, right?
When I go to a webpage and I shop for outdoor furniture?
The next two weeks I'm followed by ads
about outdoor furniture.
But if I go to Home Depot and I spend an hour
in the outdoor furniture aisle, they don't know about that.
Now, it allows you to digitize that indoor space
and provide that context for other types of applications.
>> So the value, I mean I'm not saying,
now they're going to know you actually shopped at Home Depot,
now your ad go to Home Depot. (laughing)
But the value is not so much in the advertising.
It's really in the efficiencies around work, play, office.
These are the things that are going to be impacted
because, you know, take healthcare for instance?
Manufacturing?
How people do work?
How services are delivered?
Just like in the consumer side,
we all relate to the iPhone days
when oh my god, I can have GPS on a phone.
Now I do a mash up on a Google Map.
>> Right. >> Are you saying
the same thing for buildings?
You're going to import like architectural drawings?
How do you get all of this built out?
What's the playbook? >> Yeah.
The playbook really will be starting at the larger buildings
that will be put into Google Maps
or put into other places where it can start
to get really accurate indoor locations
and then never losing things, right?
Be able to know where you are indoors.
Being able to always find your stuff,
not only where you are but maybe I put a tag
on some of my assets and I always know where they are?
The idea of nurses becoming more efficient
because they're going to know where that wheelchair is
if I need to find a wheelchair
to move a patient out of an office.
All of these things just become
a little bit more efficient but that just builds
on a huge scale when that happens at scale.
>> Darryl, talk about the impact of this
because you built and deployed disruptive technology
in the past.
For the folks watching, whether it's an enterprise architect
or CIO or CEO or facilities manager, whoever,
what is the impact of these new location based services
to their business?
How should they be thinking about it, holistically?
>> Yeah. >> What's your view?
>> My real view is that you want to look at it
from a platform, so you're not going to have one company.
Even at Cisco, we're not going to solve every application
but what you do want to do is build a platform
that's extensible, right?
We'll take in data from multiple sources,
whether it APs or video cameras, other things,
create a platform that normalizes that location,
and then opens that up.
So that's what happened as the mainframes transitioned
to client server computing.
Once you start breaking things up?
That's really the value and so I think the CIOS
and architects out there, shouldn't be looking
at point products as much as understanding
that a location platform will help them
unlock the value moving forward.
>> Talk about the data.
How is the data traversing through this?
Because obviously you mentioned connecting things
like cameras and other things?
It could be medical equipment, it could be anything.
IoT's going to be a tsunami of opportunity,
applications that are going to create a lot of opportunity.
How should I think about the data flow?
And the role of machine learning and data in all of this?
Is that going to be a key part of this?
>> Absolutely, the way that we're looking at it is
there's kind of two groups.
There's the ones that are all in on the cloud,
and we are offering this as a software
as a subscription service so you buy it
on a subscription basis and you let Cisco
deal with the problems.
Of course with a regulated environment
of access to the data and backing it up
and restoring it and making sure it's well curated.
Or you can decide, yeah I want to run it on premises.
If you want it on prem you have to understand
you're going to have to deal with those same problems
of back up, the data will get really large
as you start to collect more and more location
and how are you going to best extract value
from that data?
So I think you really want to look at
that this is something that's going
to continue to expand and do I want
to make that a core competence by running it myself?
Or maybe turn that over to cloud service?
>> So in terms of what's real and not real
or what's coming and what's real today?
So you mentioned there's some location services as a SAS.
Talk about what's available now
from your customer standpoint. >> Yeah.
>> What can they get going on
and what's coming around the corner?
>> Yeah, so what they can get going on today
is that location services, Cisco DNA Spaces.
So if you go to ciscodnaspaces.com
there's free trials available,
it's a great sort of application.
But more importantly, it provides you
that initial start, right?
What's coming is more and more applications
will take advantage of that, right?
We got a great one for things like student success,
so that you know a student is inside of a classroom
and then if he doesn't come to class for a couple days
in a row?
Oh maybe he needs counseling?
Maybe his car broke down?
You can start to do these really interesting
student success applications as an example of a vertical.
So the vertical applications are starting
to really proliferate, but what's available today
is the platform. >> So you see verticals
really booming on this? >> Yeah.
>> They're going to take advantage of it?
Alright, so just kind of zoom out
and put your industry hat on, not your Cisco hat.
When you look at wi-fi and 5G or other technologies
that are out there, what's the big movement?
What moves the ball down the field the most?
Is it going to be wi-fi and 5G?
Because it seems like, you know, inch by inch,
unified communication seemed stalled,
now it's got an uplift with cloud, with data,
more great user experiences.
SD-WAN's been around for a long time
and getting a resurgence.
I mean campus networking had been around
for a long, long time. >> I know. (chuckling)
>> People go to stadiums, want to do Instagram and do videos.
What's the big technology lever here?
What's the big tailwind for location based
in-building stuff?
>> What I start to see for this
is improving standards and improving accuracy, right?
Until you get to that point where it's reliable
and replaceable and I can really depend on it?
It's all a niche product.
I think that's been happening for literally
the last eight years in this industry.
Lots of niche examples of things that have been successful
but it hasn't exploded, until you build that platform
where I can absolutely, with reliability say,
this device is at this point at this time?
>> Yeah. >> Then you can start
to really expand but that's really--
>> The timing and the through put,
to your point earlier? >> Yeah.
>> Okay, thoughts on DevNet, just to wrap up.
What's here?
Going on in the show here?
DevNet Create, Susie did a good job
of bringing communities together.
A lot of co-creation, they're creating new things.
This is a new application environment, programmable.
What's your thoughts on DevNet?
>> Yeah, I love being around some of the smartest people
in the world here. (laughing)
It's great.
Humbling just to be able to talk to some of these guys.
But I do think that really creates
the community that teaches everything
from little things, like I learned a quick,
great new little API trick that I hadn't learned
and maybe I taught some people some of the stuff
that we're doing about streaming APIs.
What I really like about this
is all these small little interactions
build something really good. >> Yeah.
And you build API into all the products
that's only going to create more enablement.
>> Yeah. >> More creativity.
The creativity's flowing big time.
>> Right.
>> Darryl, thanks for coming on.
>> Well thank you so much. >> Great to see you.
Thanks, a CUBE fan. >> Right. (laughing)
>> Author of the product called The Cube at Cisco
back in the day.
I'm John Furrier, back with more live coverage
after this short break.
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