-Welcome to the show. -Thanks for having me.
-Yo, man, it has been quite a journey. -Yeah.
I, like, I mean, for everybody who's been watching your life
just in what feels like the period of a year,
you've gone from someone who was in prison
-looking at spending multiple years behind bars -Yeah.
to being number one on the Billboard charts
-and being free again. -Yeah. Thank God.
(cheering and applause)
Are there mornings where you wake up
still fearing the idea of going back to jail?
Yeah, I wake up every day fearing going back to jail.
I'm on bail. Uh...
I don't know if anybody know what that mean. If, uh...
The Supreme Court overturned my sentence
-and, uh, gave me a bail -Right.
and gave me a chance to actually refight the case.
I'm originally on probation. I was put on probation
for a case at, uh, the age of 18.
Falsely accused, and... You know, where I come from,
like, the value of getting arrested was just, like...
The way we valued ourself,
it was just, like, a normal thing
if a cop blamed someone, you took a deal
or you went to court and you lost a case that...
for something you didn't do.
And as I got older,
I got around, like, more powerful people
and-and met people around the world
where people valued theirself more.
And one day I just asked my friend,
like, "Yo, you think I pointed a gun at three or four cops?"
He white. And I was like, "You think I pointed a gun
"at four or five cops and got away with it
without a single shot being fired?"
And he always used to say no, but I don't think he understood
-what I was really saying to him, so, you know. -Right.
I used to say it all the time, man.
When I actually got sentenced to the two to four years,
it stemmed back from when I actually was found guilty
for a crime that I did not commit.
I don't know if anybody watches, like, social media,
what happens to young black men when you even flash a gun.
You don't even have to point a gun at a police officer
in America right now, and, you know,
sometimes them situations turn out tragic.
And, you know, uh...
as-as life went on in my cell,
you know, I just told my friends,
like, "Yo, let's go look at this case from the beginning.
-Let's go check into it." -Right.
And we had investigators check into this case top to bottom.
Most of the people that even arrested me,
testified on me were found guilty for lying,
uh, of a criminal activity.
And, actually, uh, a bunch of people got let out
through the-the investigation--
investigating these police officers.
It's interesting that your-your case
and your story became, in many ways,
what opened up a Pandora's box.
People talk about how America's criminal justice system
-is broken. -Yeah.
But now it had a face.
Meek Mill. Here he was.
He was successful. He was selling albums.
He-- You know, he was-- he was rich.
-He was doing well. But... -Yeah.
even he became a victim to the system.
Do-do you think that now,
without wanting it,
you-you've now taken on that mantle of being an advocate
for criminal justice reform?
Yeah, I kind of think it was placed on my lap.
It-it was-- Uh, the basis of it, like,
people used to say, like, "Uh, it's not about him."
No, it's not about me. It's actually about,
uh, I got found guilty at 18 for a crime I didn't do.
I'm 31 years old.
I never been back to prison for crime ever again in my life.
And I was sentenced to a two- to four-year sentence
at 31 years old
-when I'm, uh, at a successful stage in my life. -Right.
So you got to imagine people who grew up in bad environments
who get put on probation probably for petty things
-and long-term probations, uh... -Right.
And a lot-- a lot of people don't realize that,
the probation, it basically re-ups every single time.
-Yeah. -So you're-you're basically in this world
where it's like-- this is your probation
but then something small can happen.
You can have an altercation with the cops
-where you didn't do something wrong but the cops-- -Yeah.
and now you go-- now it's more and more and more.
And you-you're basically permanently at-at risk
of going back to prison.
And in this album, I think what-what's really powerful is--
-I mean, you-you've always made music about your life. -Yeah.
But Championships is honestly one of the most gripping albums
I've ever listened to, because you talk
-about what it's like to be behind bars. -Thank you.
And it's not funny. It's not cool.
-No. -It's-it's scary, man.
-Yeah. -You-you talk about hearing the screams
-of people being raped in prison. -Yeah.
You talk about, you know,
how prisoners are being treated behind bars by the guards.
And, in many ways,
you remind people that there are humans
on the other side of the bars.
-We-we always say "criminals," -Yeah.
but-but there are humans suffering through this.
Like, does that stick with you when you leave?
Uh, yeah. It was just a big deal when I, uh--
I got sentenced to a state sentence.
And, you know, uh, a lot of them kids in there
were sentenced to state sentence.
They took deals because they didn't have lawyer money.
-Right. -And, like, you know, uh, they got a thing--
a system called public defenders.
If you can't afford a private attorney,
uh, the state will assist you with a-a public defender.
A public defender would go over this case--
uh, over your case probably in four or five minutes
and, you know, take you in the courtroom.
-Right, right, right. -Had to be your life. So most of the times,
uh, these kids are charged with ten, 20 charges,
where they're facing 45 years, 30 years
for things that they most likely didn't even do.
Um, they end up taking deals
for four or five years or three years
with a bunch of parole or probation.
And they'll forever be scarred.
You won't be able to get a job.
You won't be able to attend certain schools.
Even me, myself, I tried to move in certain areas,
just having, uh, an embarrassing record
of a cop saying I pointed a gun at, uh, uh, two police officers.
Uh, certain areas I couldn't move in.
One time my bank account was closed
because I had felonies on my record,
and I'm moving so forward in my life.
It just made me want to stand up and speak for people
who, uh, are caught up in the system
and maybe trying to move forward in their lives, and...
(applause and cheering)
When you...
Just, like, a lot of people... Some people, uh...
I heard people say like, "He's not the face.
He shouldn't be the face." I'm like, "Why?"
I don't want to be the face.
I just want to help out and help bring change to the world. Uh...
-Which is amazing. I think that's amazing. -Yeah.
-I-I like to rap, I like to take care of my family. -Right.
-(applause) -Uh...
Can I ask... can I ask you a question?
I mean, Meek Mill, for a lot of people, you know,
popped into their lives because of a beef with Drake.
-Yeah. -Right?
It was huge beef with Drake, and there was back to back,
-and this was all going on. -Yeah.
And then, Meek Mill gets arrested, you go to prison.
You come out, and then, you squash the beef with Drake.
And you guys genuinely worked through it.
Not even like a PR thing.
-You worked through it as human beings. -Yeah.
Well, when you go to prison,
does it feel like a rap beef is just a waste of time?
Uh, yeah, basically. The prison is...
I played Ping-Pong, I played chess, uh...
(Noah laughs)
-Read some books. -Right.
Yeah, it was nothing that I could really benefit from.
I already had my path, uh, where I was headed to.
You know, I employ people, I'm employed myself.
-I do a lot of charity. -Right.
So, you know, I wasn't really getting into too many
of the, uh, programs they had going on.
So, you know, I worked on my Ping-Pong,
learned how to play chess.
Uh, chess taught me patience.
Uh, no. Yeah, it was a waste of time, I feel like, definitely.
When you, uh... when you... when you came out,
you immediately went into this world of advocating
for the people who spoke to you.
-People wrote you letters. -Yeah.
Uh, you know, fans who said to you,
"Hey, you've inspired me, not from prison, but just in life."
-Yeah. -"You're inspired me to get over obstacles."
And now you're fighting for America to change its ways.
What would like to see changed
-in America's prison system? -Uh...
Uh, probation and parole should have, uh, standards to it.
Uh, me-- I've been on probation from 18 years old.
I'm 31 years old.
I haven't been to jail since.
If I decided to cross the bridge to go to New Jersey
without calling my probation officer, with forgetting,
I could actually go to prison.
Or if I got pulled over or got a traffic ticket,
police contact is a violation.
If I come in contact with the police, and a judge decides
that she don't like the contact that I came in with police...
It doesn't have to involve a crime.
It doesn't have to... You could be innocent.
Like, I got sentenced to two to four years
for popping a wheelie.
I got arrested in, uh, New York for popping a wheelie,
which, actually, they charged me with an F1 felony.
When I went to court, the case was thrown out.
I didn't even get a traffic ticket for popping a wheelie.
-Right. -Uh, I still was sent to jail for that.
You know what I'm saying? It just...
Police contact on probation is,
uh, really, uh, jail time, basically.
And for people that look like me
and come from the environments I come from,
police contact happens on a daily basis.
Uh, me-- I've probably been searched by police
-5,000 times in my life, you know what I'm saying? -Right.
And not speaking, saying all cops are bad,
but I just think that's a bad dynamic
to put people like me in.
Uh...
bail reform-- at one point I was locked up with a guy
whose bail was a hundred dollars.
He spent 28 months in prison.
'Cause he couldn't pay a hundred dollars.
And that was taxpayers' money.
Like, we had to pay for this guy to be in jail for 28 months,
'cause he lorded two times in his life.
Uh, he had a drug addiction.
I don't think that was really the proper thing.
Uh, me being in prison, and... I know a lot of people hear
about prison, they're thinking, like, it's like the movies.
No, it's really like a mental institution.
A lot of people are, uh, addicts
and went to prison for probation violations
'cause they was addicted to opioids, marijuana, cocaine,
-Right. -and they're put in prisons.
Uh...
I think that them type of things should be handled accordingly.
I think people that's... have addictions should go to rehab.
You shouldn't go to a prison.
-People... -(applause)
Uh...
I don't think, like, I don't think people really realize
how deep it is.
Like, I used to read comments on, when I came home,
on the Internet: "He broke probation. Go to jail."
I'm like, "Yo, I wheely the bike, I wheely the motorcycle."
I don't know if any of y'all got kids that have dirt bikes.
I'm in love with dirt bikes. That's what I like to do.
I wheely the dirt bike.
I went from wheelying a dirt bike
to being just locked in a cell 23 hours a day
with shackles on my ankle, on my wrist,
not able to be able to contact my family,
and going through traumatizing things,
and I'm just like, "Yo, I'm not a threat to society."
And nobody that is a threat to society
should be placed in these type of conditions,
because everybody don't make it back from that.
Like, I'm telling, hearing men scream.
He probably won't never recover
from what happened to him in that prison.
He probably was locked up for... the smallest thing in the world.
And it's, like...
in America, we make it like it's just a normal thing.
Some people belong to be in jail.
We have dangerous people and people who cause harm
and don't offer nothing to society.
And you also have the 30%, 40% who are here
for technical violations and violations
and not committing crime, and people who took plea deals
'cause they couldn't afford lawyers and things like that.
So, you know, there's so many layers to it.
Me, I'm here in... on shows like this
to really deliver my experience of what I went through.
You know what I'm saying? Because America can view me
as a normal person-- they know I have a job,
they know I'm not committing crime.
And I'm delivering my message just to the world,
so we can start on a path of change.
Can I tell you, that's something I found interesting is,
-you have an album out, -Yeah.
and I've watched you go on multiple shows,
and you don't seem to need to speak about the album.
-You don't... you don't push it, you don't... -Yeah.
I mean, and it's an amazing album.
-It's at number one. -Yeah, I feel like I'm hot.
-I think I'm hot... -(laughter)
-(applause) -No, I mean, I mean it's amazing to see.
It's amazing to see, because, I mean,
many people would say, "Hey, I mean,
"there's this criminal justice thing, but at the same time
I got to make my money," but you-you're out there, and...
this... it's re... it really is something
that's close to your heart, and I, honestly, I admire that
about you as a human being, because it-it's bigger
than money, it's bigger than anything else that you're doing,
but at the same time, people are still buying the music
-and they're buying the album. -Yeah, I think they gonna
get around to that, you know? Uh...
It's, uh, it's almost nerve-racking
coming on a TV show trying to explain your innocence,
trying to speak up for voiceless people.
I have so many people that I was locked up with
that are dedicated to me speaking out,
-or trying to even get a voice for people -Right.
to hear their cries of their situation.
So you always know, you do a TV interview,
it might be five, ten minutes, 15 minutes,
sometimes even two, three minutes,
it's nerve-- it's nerve-racking to even try
to think about what I have to say
and-and to compensate the people who don't have a voice
or even promote my album.
So, you know, I just try to freestyle it.
And most of the time we end up talking about justice reform,
so, you know, we'll take it.
I also want to to talk about the album, though.
-I want to talk about the music. -Yeah.
I want to talk about, I want to talk about
the state of mind Meek Mill gets into
when he gets back in the studio.
Where do you find your joy?
You know, you-you come from this place
where your freedom is taken away from you, something that--
the one thing that human beings need more than anything,
their freedom, it's taken away from you.
-You are reminded of how thin that thread is. -Yeah.
But you still have to find your joy,
because the album is-is not, it's not only painful.
-There's-there's bangers, as you say. -Yeah. Yeah.
People are dancing, you know? There's still fun.
How do you-- how-- Where do you find that joy?
I never wrote a song in prison.
I was so depressed and stressed out.
I couldn't find the time to actually sit down
and make a rap, but I always wanted to explain this
like, on platforms like this.
A lot of people hear rap music
and sometimes you hear people talk about violence,
-drugs and things like that. -Right.
We actually grew up in these environments our whole lives.
I'm 31 years old.
From the age of one year old
to 22 years old, maybe, until I got a record deal,
I grew up in a ruthless environment.
A lot of people-- some people grew up in love,
some people grew up in hate,
I grew up in, like, the hate-survival area,
where we seen a lot of bad.
So now, uh, I still know people,
I have family members who live in that.
And, you know, we speak on things,
it's like a social forecaster.
And I just want to deliver my message in a way
where all America can view
and-and see what we go through coming from where I come from.
And, uh, I think I'm a good representative,
'cause I changed my life around,
even growing up in hate and survival mode.
And I speak on a lot of things.
Like, I talk about, uh, the opioid addiction in my city,
where, like, most young guys do Percocet.
And I talk about, uh, guys getting caught up
and being influenced by other guys
and going to jail and losing their freedom
by making bad decisions.
And I also talk about the fun side of my life,
actually having money, making money and living,
'cause sometimes that inspires people, too.
-Coming from where I come from, -Right. Right.
-we never had anything. -You got to remember.
The first person I seen was Allen Iverson.
He was the first African American I seen,
like, with a real nice car.
And where I was at, nobody really had nothing.
And that inspired me to be bigger in life,
so, you know, if you see me on Instagram or something
and I'm flaunting it a little bit, don't take it personal.
I'm just trying to inspire.
(applause)
Yo, man, I just want to say thank you so much
-for coming on the show. -All right. Thanks for having me.
-I like your show a lot, too, man. -I appreciate everything
that you do, man. Thank you so much.
Championships is available now. It is fire.
-Meek Mill, everybody. -And justice reform, too.