>> at this point when you're watching us or at least when we're filming it,
Texas is less than one week away from executing a woman named Melissa Lucio. A mother who was
convicted of murder in the death of her two year old daughter, more than a decade ago.
There's a chance that you're familiar with some of the details
of this story. What you will find if you're not is that the more you hear about this,
the more unacceptable than going forward with this is every detail. It just shows how little concern
there was forgetting to anything even approaching the truth of what happened in that tragic death.
We're gonna give you some of the basic facts to understand this, but you saw there.
The innocence project which is obviously working on this, putting out a photo of
Melissa Lucio. Now, back in 2008, Melissa was sentenced to death in Texas for the murder
of her two year old daughter, Mariah, who died two days after a tragic fall.
Now, what happened is the child fell down a flight of stairs,
while the family was moving homes in 2007. The toddler had a mild physical disability that made
her unstable while walking and prone to tripping. Two days later she took a nap and didn't wake up,
which is no matter any other detail the story, an absolute tragedy clearly.
But that does not mean that it's murder, and there's a massive difference between
one of the worst tragedies that can regrettably happen to a family. And
then implying that it was purposeful the result of abuse, now that is the direction
that the Justice Department went in or those investigating this.
So the authorities jumped in, they did not seem particularly interested in the disability that
we mentioned earlier. That might lead the child to be more prone to these sorts of falls, what
they did was an incredibly coercive interrogation of Melissa Lucio. So it was over six hours, long,
late into the night, already terrible conditions, especially for a mother who just lost her child.
They used what's called the reid technique which since has been identified as leading to a number
of different false confessions. I would find that to be unacceptable, my producer is pointing out
at that point she was also pregnant. So even more context to how devastating this interrogation was.
They got in her face, they screamed at her implying that she had to know what was going on,
saying they had evidence that she was to blame for the death. Which very like you cannot
miss the fact that they did not, they are lying to her to get her to confess.
Then they reassured her that all of this could be done if she only
admits that she was responsible, then she has nothing else to worry about.
She said over 100 times during it that she was innocent, over and over and over again. But
eventually after hours of pressure, they broke her and they got her to say what they wanted.
To repeat these phrases that they've been coaching her on
throughout that, that course confession was the core evidence presented at her trial.
Apparently critical to the jury's guilty verdict, and the death sentence
that followed. They did not need to demonstrate some sort of pattern of abuse of the children.
Anything else that would lead one to believe that aside from the death itself,
that she might be responsible. They had the confession which they forced out of her
and that's the evidence that was used. Now, there's a lot of other details which we'll get to,
but Brett, what are your thoughts based on what you've seen so far?
>> Something specific, the reid technique when the more you find out about it, the more ridiculous
it is. So the reid technique is essentially a way to get people to admit to something,
not the truth, not necessarily the truth. It is just a way of wearing someone down so that
they'll say whatever you need them to say, so that this can stop, there's no timer on it.
Now, sometimes I'm sure the Reid technique results in a confession to what's true.
But other times it has been proven that it just leads to people
saying whatever the police want. So that they'll essentially no longer
have to indure the interrogation. >> Yeah, 100% again, it's like,
I wish we had time to jump into that, because that is worthy of its own whole thing.
But right now let's let's focus on Melissa Lucio, especially because time is short were mere days
away from the execution. Now, on top of everything else that we've already said evidence that have
been presented at the trial has been debunked. The fact that timeline is my producer points
out that the death was ruled a murder before an autopsy was conducted, which that's unacceptable.
Obviously, the jury didn't hear about Melissa's own history of trauma and abuse.
The DA who prosecuted Lucio was running for reelection has since been convicted
of bribery and extortion. And there has been some, that's the context that's baked into the
decision that they got. There's been some very interesting developments since then,
including that five of the jurors in her case have come out in favor of clemency or reprieve.
Citing in part the new evidence, one in particular said I voted to sentence Melissa Lucio to death.
I was wrong, there's a group of 103 bipartisan members of the Texas legislature. Including 32
Republican members of the house at eight Republican state senators. That is 32
Republican members of the house, eight Republican state senators, coming out against an execution.
Which is that by itself should be the biggest news of the week potentially.
But despite that it is still moving forward, they are still proceeding and there's every reason to
believe that. Unless there is a national uproar that they are going to go through with this,
possibly one of the most unjust executions that we've seen in some time breath.
>> It is, I mean this is one of those heartbreaking situations, that's why a lot of
it as you go through it. You're like the, so we're going to execute this woman for it for that. Stuff
like this is the reason I don't think we should have a death penalty is you just might be wrong.
>> Yeah. >> Declaring it a murder before
you have evidence of it, taking a confession and not really being able to bring actual evidence.
And then the process that forbids any additional evidence from coming into the courtroom. But
the thing for me is that this happened 14 years ago, and she's going to be killed by the state.
By the state that says that listen, we shouldn't have government overreach,
but we should also just be able to kill you. And I understand there should be and
when this kind of information comes out, the amount of cost. And time that it would take
to get this through the justice system in a way that yields justice.
Which is what the justice system is named after is prohibitive,
not only in terms of overall resources. But the amount of time she's allowed to
be on death law before they kill her. >> Yeah, just think like you pointed out
the time since it's been there, imagine let's say that everything goes the way it should.
That they do cancel this thing, which there's at this point not a great reasonably that's gonna
happen. We have in the lower third, you can see the phone number there if you wanna call
Governor Abbott to try to put pressure on him. Of course it's Governor Abbott,
so that's gonna be difficult if you're on the podcast by the way.
The phone number is 956-446-2866, it has been, she lost her child, she has spent years and
years. In which she has been incarcerated, many people might have up until recently
thought that she actually did it. So that's its own terror facing
death even if nothing else happened, this has been an unacceptable.
Unimaginable situation to put this mother through,
and she might die as a result of it. This should by itself, as you pointed out,
this should be enough to get us to end the death penalty, that this sort of injustice could happen.
But the thing is we know that there's hundreds and hundreds of cases exactly like this.
Where the evidence was just as shoddy, the force confessions were just as clear. And the techniques
that were used were just as objectionable, but we just keep let it happening. And this is Texas, and
some republicans to their credit are coming out against it. But
for the most part like perfectly fine with this, this is hardly new specifically in Texas.
>> Yeah, and there's other facts, like if you read the objection, the strongly worded, but still
respectful letter from all the legislators. I think in there, they point out that
her husband, who has a history of violence has gone to jail and gotten out since then.
And she's still there and they just decide and that's it,
that's what's so frustrating then what is Governor Abbott going to do?
Is he going to extend this? No, he's a brown person,
we're gonna put him in jail, like I don't lose any points for keeping that
there, plus we get to kill someone which they in Texas. His base loves.