- Hi, everyone.
I've got a special guest with me today.
This is Zach.
(ding)
We've been Internet friends for a while, right?
- Yeah.
- Like, years.
Something like that. - Yeah. I think that's how we
knew each other originally.
- We met for the first time,
I think last year in Amsterdam.
- Two years ago--
- Two years ago?
- In San Francisco.
(laughs)
- We met at one point after
being friends online for a while.
Zach is a designer.
You've worked at a bunch of different tech companies,
which I think is how I first knew you.
- I think so.
- But now you're freelance, which is exciting.
- Yes.
- And in this video I just wanted to get Zach
to share the story of his career
because I think everyone has a different pathway
into design, and then a different pathway
once they get into design as well.
- And I think everybody thinks it has to go
in one direction, and it's not--
You don't have to know what you're gonna
be doing in five years.
- [Charli] Okay, cool, well, let's hear
where did you start out?
Did you go to design school?
- I went to school for fine arts.
- Okay.
- So I grew up in Corning, New York, which is where
Corning Incorporated's based.
They make glass stuff.
- Ooh.
- They make the glass in your phones.
All that.
- Right.
- But there's also a glass museum,
and that was my first job was giving tours.
And so they have this live hot glass show,
and I was like, I wanted to do that.
They were the rock stars.
So I started studying glass blowing.
- Wow.
- First outside of school when I was in high school,
and then I went to university for glass blowing.
But I picked a program that was fine arts as a general,
and then you could focus on a medium, because I knew
I wanted to try other stuff too.
- Yep.
- Originally, I was like, I'm gonna do glass blowing.
And then after a year, I was like, I think I'm gonna
do sculpture, so I started metal sculpture and really
just all three-dimensional, physical stuff,
and along the way I took some sound design classes
as a oh that sounds fun and interesting.
- Sounds fun.
(both laugh)
- And then I took some photography, I took a design class,
and I was like, oh this is cool.
I really took design 'cause I was like, I should have
a back-up plan.
- So design was the back-up plan for glass blowing?
- Correct.
- Right.
- And glass blowing is really expensive.
- Yeah.
- You have to run the furnaces all year round.
- Okay.
- So as an artist it's hard to make enough money
to keep a studio open.
And then I got really into video production,
so I did my last year and a half
of university doing video art.
- Okay, so you tried all
of the different disciplines of art.
- (laughs) Yes. I tried as much as I could.
- Cool, cool.
- And then when I graduated I had a little show
in New York City, and then I was like, I need a job.
It was 2011; not the best time to get a job,
and my brother had moved to San Francisco,
so I got really lucky and I'm very privileged
to have the opportunity to sleep on his couch
for a couple of months.
So I moved out to San Francisco and applied to 950 jobs.
- Just a small amount, then?
- And I got three interviews from that.
- Oh my God.
- So it was not the best time.
I was applying all over the country.
- I was like, I'll work anywhere.
- I'll take any job.
- I was really looking for video editing.
And then I got, one of the three interviews
was at the Apple Store.
- Ahh.
- I was like, I love Apple products, this'll be great
to do while I continue looking for my career job.
- Yep.
- Which I still thought was video production at the time.
- Right. At the time.
- So, I worked at the Apple store,
and I had this in-store role that's teaching.
You teach people.
I don't know how much they do it now,
but you used to be able to sign up for a year-long
subscription - Okay.
- to go to the Apple Store and take classes.
So I was teaching Keynote, and the rest of the iWorks Suite,
and Apple's Pro Apps, and I did that for a little
over a year, and then my awesome senior manager left
to go work at Square, which is a Fintech company.
At the time they were small, it was a small,
San Francisco start-up.
So I went and followed him and took the most
entry-level job at the company.
They just converted the role
from a contractor role to full-time.
So in a lot of the tech companies in San Francisco
there's a cafeteria.
- Yep.
- And at Square they have someone check you out,
so you pay for your lunch - Yep.
- so they can test their product.
- Ahh.
- It's like dog fooding, so you test your own products.
So my job was to literally swipe people's credit cards.
- And be testing the products.
- And write bug reports.
- Right.
- But also fix the kegerator when it broke.
- Okay. (laughs)
- And pour champagne and the going away events
that the design team had.
- Oh.
- So that was my role in the design team was pouring
champagne - Champagne
- for them and then leaving.
(both laugh)
So it was really foot in the door opportunity.
- Yeah.
- I stayed at Square for five years.
I moved into a presentation design role,
and that's when I started doing presentation design.
And part of the reason I could do that is
I had taught Keynote at Apple.
So I had that background. - Right. Yeah.
- And then I had a semester of design education
from university, so I sort of put those two together
and was like, I could do that job. (laughs)
- Yeah.
- And they gave me a chance and it was great
that I was in the company already 'cause I sort of,
I hate to say, everyone's like, the trick is to network,
but that's really how I got the job.
- Internal networking.
- Yeah exactly. - Yeah, yeah. Of course.
- I just knew the people that were on the team,
and so I hate recommending it 'cause it's such a cliche,
just network,
but it's really important - Yeah.
- who you know and meeting people
to make those moves even within a company.
So I did presentation design and then we had a little
reorg and I started running the communications design team.
- So you went from swiping the cards
and pouring the champagne - (laughs) Yes.
- to running the communications design team.
- That's right.
- Great.
- So that was my path over five years at Square,
and then at the end of 2017 my partner and I moved
to Amsterdam and I started working at Figma,
the design tool company, where I--
- We know all about Figma.
- (laughs) We know all about Figma.
So I did that for a year, and then just in February
this year, I went full-time freelancing.
- And what was your role at Figma?
- That's a really good question.
So I left being a designer to run a design education
program at Figma, and then I started doing designer
advocacy in Europe because I was based here.
So hosting events and meet-ups and helping other people
host events and meet-ups around Europe.
- Yeah and now you've gone back to design
in what you do with your own business.
- Yes, so I run a presentation design consultancy.
- Yeah.
- And we focus on companies we
(both laugh)
- Me, myself, and I.
- Yeah, exactly.
My company, which is just me, focuses
on company storytelling and fundraising.
So lot of presentations are used to pitch VCs
- Yeah.
in Silicon Valley and around the world, so that's
what I focus on right now 'cause I've just got
a bunch of experience doing it.
Sort of freelanced on the side for a couple of years
at Square, so I just had this little client base already,
and a name out there, so it's a little niche I have.
- Very niche.
- I'm not the only person that does it,
but it's not a large group of people.
- Yeah. So how did you get into doing that?
I'm guessing that when you were at Square you might
have designed some of these decks for pitching
for investors and things like that.
- Exactly. Yeah.
Every company does a board of director's meeting
on a quarterly basis, and that's a lot
of investor updates, - Yeah.
- pretty much, right; they're just a smaller subset
of your investors.
So I did that quarterly for, I don't know, four years.
- Yeah.
- And then I think three or four of the fundraising rounds
that Square did, I worked on those pitch decks,
and when Square IPO'd.
- Great
- I worked with the brand marketing design team
to do a bunch of materials for IPO
and the whole road show, which is
- Yeah.
- In the land of investor relations, the big deck.
- Cool.
So how did you get other clients on board as well
for doing this sort of stuff?
- It kind of goes back to the networking internally.
What was cool about my role at Square was that I was
the only presentation designer for a long time,
and so the rest of the teams in the company were my clients.
So it was sort of an internal agency model.
- Right.
- A little bit. And so I worked with people and teams
all over the company and so I got to interact with a lot
of people, and people leave their jobs and go work
at other companies.
- And those companies need pitch decks.
- Exactly.
(Charli laughs)
- So someone says, oh I just joined this start-up;
we're 14 people; we're doing our first fundraising round.
- Right.
- You're the only person I know that does this.
(Charli laughs)
And so that's sorta how I built my client base.
- Cool.
- And then just word of mouth.
I did my first advertising in February this year,
or March this year after going full-time freelance.
- Right.
- Just 'cause I thought it'd be helpful
to get my name out there.
- Cool.
- All of my clients so far have been word of mouth.
- That's amazing.
- Yeah.
- And it is such a specific niche as well.
Do you feel like you chose it or did kinda it choose you?
- That's really good question.
I think it's a little bit of both.
- Yeah, it sounds like it's a bit of both.
You just found yourself in this position
where this is what you were asked to do,
also you were good at it, also you enjoyed it, I'm guessing,
if that's something you do? - Yeah.
I do like it.
- [Both] Yeah.
- Yeah, there was a moment where I was running the
communications design team, and I was like, I really
wanna be a product designer.
- Okay.
- And I started down the path of that, and then SuperHi
started, if you're familiar with SuperHi.
- Yeah, yeah.
- SuperHi's like a cool code school, and they also have
design classes now, but when it started it was just code.
And so I was in one of the earlier groups of students.
- Okay.
- So I was like, I'm gonna learn how to code and I'll do
some web design and I'll be able
to get hired as a UX designer or an interactive designer
or whatever they're called now.
(both laugh)
I was just like, oh that's really what I wanna do
is move on to that side 'cause I think I still had
that feeling I had at the glass museum
of those are the rock stars,
the designers that got the most--
- Accolades and.
- Yeah.
- Just people knew the names of more of those designers.
I really thought that's what I wanted.
I've never been an attention seeking, I want fame
kind of person, but I thought that if everyone's eyes
are sort of going in that direction,
that's the direction I should go in.
- Right.
- Learning that I don't have to do that
or need to do that has been really great.
- Yeah.
- I tried some product design.
I was like, oh, you know what?
This isn't the thing that gets me excited every day.
- That's what I love about having you on this channel
to tell your story is because it is such a different role
in design that you have, one that maybe somebody watching
this, you're the first presentation designer
they've ever heard of.
- Right, yeah.
- Now they know this job exists.
- Right.
- So that's really exciting.
'Cause I do think there's a tendency for us to think
we have to go with what most people seem to be doing.
For me, when I left university, most people were
working at agencies.
- Right.
- I was like, obviously that's what I should aim for.
I'm gonna take this in-house job for now, but eventually
I should try and go for an agency because that's
the done thing.
- Right, right.
- And, discovered, I actually really like in-house.
Same with freelancing for me.
I've discovered, don't really like freelancing;
just don't enjoy it.
Just because most designers do it, though,
I felt like I should.
- Right, yeah.
- But you don't have to.
- You don't have to.
There are plenty of paths that aren't the one path.
- [Charli] Yeah.
- Trying the different ones, I think
has been really helpful for me.
- I think that you kinda have to be a bit brave
to be exploring though.
How did you know it was time for you to go freelance
and go all in on this niche of yours
because that seems scary as well,
to quit your job
to go freelance. - Yeah.
It was scary.
I had a client base already from freelance.
- Right.
- And I had lots of inbound clients still.
So in my heart I was like, okay, it'll be fine.
It'll be okay; I can make this leap.
I've kinda got some job offers around,
and I feel like I was well-networked.
- Yeah.
- The cool part of working at Figma was I was
interacting with designers across the world.
- Yeah.
- From really big companies using Figma
to small companies and individuals.
So I felt like I got to talk to a lot
of those designers and teams when I was at Figma.
So I was like, I've got enough sort of rolodexes,
if it was 30 years ago--
(both laugh)
And enough people that I could reach out to and network
and try and get another job if freelancing didn't work out.
- Yeah.
- That was sort of a safety net along with having clients.
But it was sort of a little bit of a leap of faith.
- Yeah.
Can you give some advice for networking?
'Cause obviously it sounds like that has played a big role
in your career path and I agree:
it's a super important skill.
- Yeah.
- How do you go about doing it?
Say there's someone watching who is early in their career
and they know networking is important.
- Yeah.
- How do you do that?
- I think you said it: it's a skill.
- Yeah.
- It's just like learning how to do user research
or learning how to do grid systems.
It's a thing to learn.
- Yeah.
- Just like interviewing.
A lot of people think that interviewing is just a part
of getting a job, but it's a skill in itself.
Or being an interviewer at a company.
- Yeah.
- That's a skill to learn.
So it takes practice, it takes watching other people.
- Okay.
- If you know some really well-networked people,
or you've got a friend who just seems
really more comfortable in those social spaces,
go to a meet-up with them.
Maybe you're a designer and you have a really social
friend who's not, take them to a design event
and just watch - And just watch, yeah.
- and just see how they interact with people.
I think it can be really helpful.
- Yeah.
- I think just like with a lot of stuff there's
just having confidence in yourself.
- Yeah.
- I have battled with Imposter Syndrome my entire design
career, including now and it's just like, but I am
good at this thing, and you just have to embrace that
you do your job and you get paid to do it.
- Yeah.
- Or you wanna get paid to do it, and you do it,
so you're a designer, and you're capable.
- And have some confidence in yourself.
- And have some confidence in that.
Yeah.
I think a lot of people do this thing where they layer
all these asterisks, like footnotes, on to what they do.
Well, I'm an aspiring designer, I just started out.
I'm not very good yet.
You start layering those in when you introduce yourself
to someone, and it's like, that person doesn't need
to hear that.
- Yeah. I'm a designer.
- I'm a designer and I focus on this;
or I'm really excited about this right now.
- I love that.
- Yeah.
For me, when I'm networking as well, I always think about
what made me feel really comfortable when someone
approached me, 'cause I'm an introvert and I'm not
good at talking to people a lot of the time.
And so, what was something that made me feel really
comfortable and made me feel like we had a great
conversation; how can I copy that for someone else?
- Exactly. Yeah. - Yeah.
- I'm also an introvert and struggle a lot--
- You wouldn't be able to tell.
I've seen Zach network and he is great at it.
- Thank you.
(both laugh)
- I think the other thing is everybody
likes talking about themselves.
- Yeah.
- It's just human nature - Yeah.
- to wanna talk about yourself.
Oftentimes when people have conversations they relate,
the sympathizing; they relate something
to what their experience is.
- Yep, yeah.
- So ask questions.
People love talking about themselves.
- Great.
- Yeah.
- Great advice. Yep.
Love it.
Do you ever miss glass blowing?
That is my question to end on.
- I do.
I actually miss glass casting.
- Okay.
What is that?
(both laugh)
- You have a giant, 50-pound ladle.
- Okay.
- I don't know how many kilograms that is.
- It's fine.
- It's heavy.
- We can imagine. (laughs)
- Thirty-five kilogram ladle, a metal ladle.
It's like a bowl on a stick and you dip it in a crucible
full of molten glass, at 21 to 2300 degrees Fahrenheit.
- That sounds badass.
- Also don't know how much that is Celsius.
(Charli laughs)
And then you pour it into molds that you've made out
of sand and resin or plaster or there are materials
for making molds out of.
I did a lot of sand and resin.
- So it's not blowing the glass,
but forming it some other way.
- Exactly.
- Ohh. Amazing.
I love that.
Thank you for sharing your story, Zach.
- My God, of course.
- I think it's really interesting to hear this completely
non-linear path into design, and the fact that you tried
a bunch of stuff out to get to where you wanted to be
and to figure out what you wanted to be.
We've got another video coming out with Zach, actually,
where because he is a presentation designer, that is
his whole thing, he's going to be sharing his top tips
for presentation design, so stay tuned for that video.
We'll be linking it on a card when it does come out.
And Zach, you have somewhere else where people can go
to learn more about presentation design, right?
- Yeah, presentation dot design--
- Great URL.
- Is a medium publication and there's a couple of authors
on there that are really passionate about or specific
to the area of presentation design, and I'm continuing
to sort of add resources to it as I can.
- Great.
There'll be links to all of Zach's stuff, socials, all
the things down below in the descriptions.
Check that out.
Give the video a thumbs up if you enjoyed it,
and we'll see you next time.
- Bye.