Samuel: Get down on your knees! Right now!
When a fugitive does not want to go to jail,
would they jump?
Yes. I've had several fugitives
that literally jumped off buildings.
Hi, my name is Rasheen Peppers.
I'm a former police captain with the city of Newark.
10 years of my career
I was detailed to United States Marshals Service,
tracking down what they consider
the world's most violent fugitives.
Today, we'll be looking at fugitive chases
in movies and TVs and see just how real they are.
[laughs] 90% of that is just unrealistic.
They're transporting her without a cage in a car.
That's against protocol.
The cage in the car is a partition
that separates the prisoner
from the officers that are driving.
This protects them.
In the event the person does free themselves,
they're unable to get to the police officers in the front.
In this scene, where her being handcuffed to the front,
that's against protocol.
You're handcuffed to the back.
Because they transported her to the front,
she was able to get to their Tasers.
If an officer rides in the rear,
they ride with their firearm away from the prisoner.
So they would never sit a prisoner to their right
if their weapon was on the right.
Being transported in the middle of the convoy,
this can and can't happen.
If there is some type of intelligence
that this person, one, is extremely dangerous,
two, that there are going to be others
that will be attempting to free this person,
if you have information like that, yes,
but we would never use marked police cars.
We only transport in unmarked cars.
I rate this one a 2.
Nothing else in this clip was realistic at all.
I'm here. Where are you?
So, although Walter, in this scene,
is not a fugitive yet,
it's realistic to bait a fugitive, if feasible.
One, we actually sent out
probably close to 100 fugitives.
We had a mailing list go out
about them winning these prizes.
We had them all come to Atlantic City
to the convention center. When they checked in,
there was a false wall that you have all the agents behind.
Then, once everything was done,
[clicks], doors locked,
and then you have SWAT teams come in,
and they just start securing everybody.
So, yes, it happens.
Hank: Walt! Come on out, Walt!
Having a witness there,
I would never have them at a scene.
Our main goal is to protect the public.
So if you have a citizen or witness that is helping you,
you never want to expose them. Right?
And you wouldn't have two agents
there to do a operation like that,
because it's high risk.
They also responded to a deserted area,
which is not going to happen
unless it was something that was unplanned.
Hank: Stop.
Lace your fingers behind your head.
Walk backwards to me.
Get on your knees.
By having them turn around with the hands in the air
and come towards you is the right protocol.
When he ordered him to turn around,
they call that a felony type of apprehension,
because the person may cause
some type of threat or high risk.
However, the preferable way is
not to really keep him on his knees with his hands up,
because if he drops his hands,
you can't see them anymore.
And now you have a situation
that he has a firearm in his hand.
So many of the officers have them in prone positions
with their hands out to their sides
and their palms facing up.
I give it a 6 for this scene.
See, right here, a car hit a motorcycle,
and the officers are still chasing Bourne.
That's just not real.
It's paramount to make sure that the person
that was hit on that motorcycle is OK.
And if the person that you pushed
needs any medical treatment,
you would radio in that the perpetrator is still on foot,
not continue to chase Bourne at this point.
Yeah, it was realistic.
The officers were in a foot chase.
They don't have access to a boat at that time.
So it appeared that they were waving to see
if they can get the captain's attention
to let the captain know,
there's someone that jumped onto your boat.
However, what should have been done
in the interim was that they would need to call
whoever governs their water to advise them to stop the boat.
After he got off the boat,
there was pretty much no eye contact.
So at that point they should have been calling out,
trying to set a perimeter.
It happens to us, not often,
but enough that you find fugitives
that are very athletic, very agile,
that are able to avoid apprehension.
I remember we had a guy,
he jumps right off the roof,
he falls onto a iron-cast fence.
He literally takes his arm out,
and pew, he runs.
I rated this one an 8.
What color was that ambulance, Renfro?
That scene is very realistic.
It was quintessential for them to use
some type of aerial support.
Normally, we know when we need a helicopter
is when we plan things
by gathering intelligence, knowing the terrain,
and include a helicopter if we need it.
This right here was something that they were not expecting.
But what's not shown in the clip is that this guy,
he's probably hours ahead of them.
So when the information came in
that he was spotted in a ambulance,
they needed the helicopter to at least gain ground.
Get on the horn. Bring Biggs and Newman in
from the south side of that viaduct.
Well, there's no right or wrong in that.
However, when you're blocking off a viaduct
and you're believing you're chasing a dangerous fugitive,
now you have locked the citizens
in there with the perpetrator.
I may have stationed a vehicle or some officers
so that each car that's coming out of the viaduct
was stopped to make sure he did not jump
into another vehicle.
But to completely shut it off, I would not have done that.
Put a man in there!
Have I personally chased people through a sewer?
No. But have I chased them through very high
and dangerous situations? Yes.
So I would've did the same thing the deputy had done.
I would've had my team begin to check the vehicles.
That doesn't mean that we would prolong
going into the sewer,
but at least while that's being done,
we know that the vehicles are also being checked as well.
I didn't kill my wife!
I don't care!
So, that reaction is true.
Many fugitive trackers don't really care
if they did the crime or not.
Only thing we know is that a warrant
has been signed for your arrest,
and our job is to bring you to that respective jurisdiction.
Samuel: Put that gun down!
What the deputy did was actually protocol.
He was by himself. There was no reason to engage him,
because he could have caused the situation to get worse.
In a real-life situation,
had he turned around with that gun,
'cause the command was, "Put the gun down,"
normally, that would've been a probable cause
for use of deadly force.
When a fugitive does not want to go to jail
and he's cornered, would they jump?
Yes, I've had several fugitives
that literally jumped off buildings.
He should've got on a radio, gave his location,
and then they could have hopefully taken him into custody.
But, you know, he jumped.
I rate this scene 8 out of 10.
Paramedic: 90 seconds. McKenna: Let's go.
Wait, wait, wait. It's 1 a.m., not 1 p.m.
Anything goes wrong, you can blame us.
Yeah, well something will go wrong,
and then you're all f---ed.
So, they're going back and forth, and that happens.
Local government working with federal government
is very realistic.
So, you have NYPD here, you have the FBI here.
You have the lead detective stating
what he believes that needs to be done,
and the FBI has a different position.
Different agencies, different personalities,
different methodologies.
Close the island.
What island?
Manhattan.
Arbitrarily lock down the whole island.
It's not realistic.
That imposes on millions and millions of people
trying to move in and out of the city.
It's unjustified.
For terrorist attacks, it may be justified.
However, that would never come from a NYPD officer.
That would definitely come from someone
in the federal authorities
to make a determination of that sort.
In this scene, they haven't even
identified who the perpetrators are.
So who and what are they chasing?
It's about finding out who did it,
not locking down Manhattan.
Catch them by 5.
Wait, is that a yes or a no?
Catch them by 5.
This guy gives Detective Davis
until 5 a.m. to find the perpetrators of this crime,
and it's already 1 a.m.
Four hours is just not enough, because, No. 1,
you're talking about closing down an island, right?
That's going to take them more than four hours
just to close the island down.
And, No. 2, a deputy mayor does not have the authority
or possess the acumen when it comes to law enforcement
to determine how many hours it would take
for a detective to solve a crime.
When you're tracking a fugitive,
everything is a case-by-case basis.
It could be from one hour to five years.
So that's not even ethical to give him a time frame.
There are 21 bridges in and out of Manhattan.
Shut them down.
Stop every train that leaves the island
and loop the subways.
Cutting off bridges is not
as simple as the movie portrays.
They don't even have control over those bridges.
However, if you have, as an officer,
reasonable belief that you have a perpetrator
that's on a specific bridge,
specific train, or any type of transportation,
yes, you have the authority to seize it
so that you can make the apprehension.
However, if you're going to get into something big
and elaborate, like the scene,
you will have to contact those governing authorities
to ask permission to do that.
I gave this a 4 out of 10.
No detective has the authority
to shut down a whole city.
Frank: Hello, Carl.
Carl: Barry Allen, Secret Service.
It's definitely something that does take place.
Personally, I've received at least 12
calls from fugitives.
In this scene, Agent Carl is a FBI agent
tracking a fugitive.
FBI, they do have a fugitive unit,
but the Marshals Service specializes in it.
In my suite at the Stuyvesant Arms, room 3113.
You're not going to Vegas.
You're not in the Stuyvesant Arms.
It's very realistic for the agent to believe
that the fugitive was providing false information.
Nine times out of 10 when a fugitive calls you,
he's not calling you to turn himself in.
He's playing checkers.
He's trying to find out what you know
so he can make his next move.
I'll tell you what I am sure of.
You're going to get caught. It's a mathematical fact.
When the agent tells him it's a mathematical fact
that you're going to get caught,
it's statistically the truth.
93% to 95% of fugitives are apprehended.
Movies show that fugitives are unlikely to be apprehended.
So it's definitely much higher
than what the movies and TV shows portray.
You didn't call just to apologize, did you?
You have no one else to call!
[laughs]
He was doing exactly what I would've done.
When you start to attempt to extract information
from a fugitive,
you may tip off to him more what you know.
In that scene, he says, "You have no one else to call."
Right? He said that because he's probably
exhausted all of his relatives,
all of his friends,
who don't even want this guy next to them
because you brought law enforcement to our house.
The biggest myth that you have
in reference to tracking and catching fugitives
is that it's not always running around,
jumping in cars, things of that nature.
There's a lot of paperwork behind this.
There's a lot of interviews that are involved.
10% may be the jumping into cars
and running after a person.
I rate this scene a 9 out of 10.
Shut up and put your arm around me.
Laugh at something I said.
Steve: What? Natasha: Do it.
[Steve laughs]
See, that tacit movement there
would've probably made me look at them
and suspect that they were the people I was looking for,
because it was just a quick drop of the head.
It was avoidance, and that would have concerned me,
because how would they know me to want to avoid me?
A lot of the fugitive trackers,
most of them don't know their fugitive personally.
They just know them by a picture.
So it is realistic that the fugitive trackers
would be thrown off by Captain America's disguise.
Negative at the source.
This scenario, they're in a mall.
Definitely not the best place to do it.
What I would have done was just maintain a surveillance,
and when they left the mall
maybe be able to take them down in a feasible place.
Give me a floor rundown.
Negative on three.
Negative on two.
The fugitive trackers, they broke off in pairs,
which is always what you want to do.
You never really want to be by yourself
in the event that you have to engage the fugitive.
To spread out in the mall,
that's a way of setting a perimeter.
And, yes, when you're in a noisy place like that,
it is realistic for fugitive trackers to wear earpieces
and then press it deeper into their ear
so they can hear the communication.
It's not just a movie trope at all.
Kiss me.
What?
So, when they just started kissing,
it may throw a fugitive tracker off,
because that's not the behavior
that the fugitive tracker's going to be looking for.
Many of the fugitive trackers are trained
to look for things that are pronounced,
things that are normal,
because those things become invisible to a layman.
The environment is going to dictate
what you're going to look for.
They just started kissing.
That's a natural thing that you would see in a mall,
and a fugitive tracker is not going to think
that's abnormal. However, for me,
I would have looked and assessed
because of the timing of the kiss.
It wasn't like it was taking place
when I walked onto the escalator
and saw it taking place.
No, it happened at the exact time as we met.
I rated this one 9 out of 10.
It does take place
where a fugitive will produce themselves in the open
so that they can be invisible to the actual tracker.
Well, their disguises are definitely realistic.
The community dictates the type of disguises you can wear.
I've done many disguises.
One that stands out to me,
there was a murder that took place in Maplewood, New Jersey.
We received some intelligence
where a couple of apartments that he could be in,
they were experiencing some electrical problems.
So I went and posed as an electrician.
One thing that we have to be careful when we're in disguises
is disguising ourselves under actual companies.
Here, you know, he's dressed as a chicken for a company.
We normally probably wouldn't want to do that,
because then you put that company at risk as well.
Tactically, that's not how the marshals
are actually going to enter.
They would have a team at the back door that was stacked
and a team at the front door.
Stacked means they would have a line of officers
who would have different types of instruments, or tools.
They would've had a bunker in front of them.
A bunker is a shield.
They would've had ballistic helmets on.
They would've had other devices to distract.
If you watch most of the scene,
it would've limited all of the fighting
and people jumping out of all these areas,
'cause they would go in, and everything would have been
tactically sound and contained.
Police!
Freeze! Don't even think about it!
Hands in the air!
Get away!
The no-knock is very controversial.
The no-knock is when we can articulate
that us knocking puts the officer
in some type of risk
or the evidence will be destroyed.
I would say, just for conversation purposes,
the no-knock would have been acceptable for that situation.
They hit the door, people came, they were armed.
That one guy tried to go into the bedroom.
He ended up getting shot
because he didn't listen to the officer,
and under the baby there was an assault rifle.
The dilemma is coming in between both sides,
law enforcement and the citizens,
the police officers that have to go out here
and put their lives on the line
and also the citizens that already have lost their life.
And it's going to really have to fall on each state
or the legislators to put something in place
that's going to satisfy both sides.
I rated this scene an 8 out of 10.
The surveillance was very realistic.
The mayhem inside the apartment was definitely realistic.
That's what you're going to get
when you enter an apartment for a violent fugitive,
especially in the wrong manner.
Come on, run!
What the correction officers did were correct.
When you're talking about six, seven prisoners are running,
and when you look at the officers,
you only had about the equal amount.
So to disperse, actually, even to set up a perimeter,
could have put the officers in danger.
The best thing for them to do at this point
was to at least maintain eye contact
so that you can radio in to get
the additional resources that you needed.
So, in this scene, they maintain eyesight.
They stayed behind them all.
Run!
Officer: Hold your fire!
When the officer yells, "Hold your fire,"
I actually commend him for that.
So the officer chose to preserve life
as opposed to doing
what probably other officers would be quick to do.
Lincoln: Michael, let's go!
So, it's no wrong or right with that scenario,
but it also depends on the officer's athletic ability,
his strength, which it seems like, you know,
it's hard to do when you're carrying a big rifle as well
and trying to board a train.
So they weren't able to make the train,
and the two prisoners got away.
My favorite fugitive chase
in a movie or TV show happens to be,
it's a show that I was a part of called "Manhunters,"
and the episode was called "Hide and Seek."
And this apprehension was so fast-paced
that my adrenaline,
for at least a good two hours,
just kept going.
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