HEY, EVERYBODY, WELCOME BACK.
MY NEXT GUESTS ARE PULITZER-PRIZE WINNING
JOURNALISTS WHOSE NEW BOOK, "A VERY STABLE GENIUS," IS THE
NUMBER-ONE "NEW YORK TIMES" BESTSELLER.
PLEASE WELCOME PHILIP RUCKER AND CAROL LEONNIG.
♪ ♪ ♪
>> Stephen: HI, CAROL!
THANKS SO MUCH.
HEY, PHILLIP.
COME ON UP.
WON'T YOU PLEASE.
THANKS FOR JOINING US HERE ON THE LIVE NIGHT.
>> WE'RE GLAD TO BE HERE.
>> Stephen: OKAY, THE BOOK IS "A VERY STABLE GENIUS."
AS I SAID, IT'S NUMBER ONE ON NONFICTION.
YOU'RE BOTH BONA FIDE TRUMP EXPERTS.
YOU SPENT YEARS RESEARCHING THIS BOOK.
WAS THAT THE STATE OF THE UNION OF ALL EXPECTED?
>> A LITTLE BIT.
I MEAN, HE WAS-- HIS TYPICAL MODE, WHICH IS "I MADE THIS
COUNTRY BETTER.
I MADE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.
I ACCOMPLISHED ALL THESE AMAZING THINGS."
>> Stephen: MADE IT GREATEST, ACTUALLY, GREATEST.
>> BETTER THAN EVER BEFORE.
>> Stephen: STRONGEST UNION OF ALL TIME.
>> AND HE WAS-- HE WAS NOT GOING AFTER HIS ENEMIES AS MUCH AS I
THOUGHT HE MIGHT.
YOU KNOW, HE HAS A THING ABOUT GOING AFTER PEOPLE THAT HE
THINKS ARE ATTACKING HIM, AND HE DID LESS OF THAT TONIGHT.
>> Stephen: THERE WAS-- PEOPLE WERE SAYING THERE WAS A BIT OF A
REALITY SHOW TOUCH TONIGHT, THAT HE AWARD A SCHOLARSHIP, AWARDED
A MEDAL OF FREEDOM, REUNITED A SOLDIER WITH HIS FAMILY.
BUT PLOAS HEHER OWN MOMENT WHEN SHE RIPPED UP THAT SPEECH.
WAS THAT SURPRISING TO YOU, BASED ON WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT HER
AND THEIR RELATIONSHIP?
>> WELL, LAST YEAR, SHE DID THE CLAP, REMEMBER?
>> Stephen: YES.
>> SO, THIS YEAR SHE RIPPED UP THE SPEECH.
WE ACTUALLY HAVE A SCENE IN THE BOOK THAT'S REALLY TELLING ABOUT
PELOSI.
EARLY ON IN THE ADMINISTRATION, A COUPLE OF DAYS AFTER THE
INAUGURATION, WHEN THE PRESIDENT IS HAVING A RECEPTION AT THE
WHITE HOUSE WITH CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS, HE'S GOING ON ABOUT HOW
THERE WAS VOTER FRAUD, HE REALLY WON THE POPULAR VOTE BECAUSE
THREE TO FIVE MILLION PEOPLE VOTED ILLEGALLY IN CALIFORNIA--
AND THAT WAS NOT TRUE.
PELOSI CONFRONTED HIM ABOUT IT AND STEVE BANNON WHISPERED TO
OTHER ADVISERS, ""SHE'S AN ASSASSIN.
SHE'S A TOTAL ASSASSIN, AND SHE'S GOING TO GET US."
THAT'S THE PELOSI WE SAW TONIGHT, THE ASSASSIN MOVE
RIPPING UP THE SPEECH.
>> Stephen: AND THAT WAS BEHIND HIS BACK.
HE COULDN'T SEE HER DO IT.
THAT WAS A SMART WAY TO DO IT.
HE WILL FIND OUT AFTER WHEN PEOPLE TELL HIM.
>> HE WILL SEE THE CLIPS.
>> Stephen: HE DIDN'T MENTION IMPEACHMENT AT ALL.
>> NO.
>> NO, HE REALLY DIDN'T.
>> Stephen: DIDN'T BRING IT UP.
>> AND PRESIDENT CLINTON DIDN'T BRING IT UP, EITHER.
ONE OF THE THING'S THAT'S INTRIGUING ABOUT THAT IS WE HAVE
SPENT THREE YEARS COVERING THIS PRESIDENT, AND ONE THING HE IS A
MASTER AT, I MEAN, A GENIUS AT-- OUR BOOK IS CALLED "A VERY
STABLE GENIUS--" WHICH IS THIS, CONVINCING PEOPLE THAT, YOU
KNOW, HE'S THE BEST AT-- THE BEST OF HIS OWN LAWYER.
HE'S THE BEST COMMUNICATOR.
HE'S THE BEST... INSTINCT.
HE'S GOT IT ALL.
AND IN THIS INSTANCE, HE DOESN'T MENTION IMPEACHMENT, BECAUSE
WHY?
HE'S-- HE'S BEAT IMPEACHMENT ALREADY.
>> Stephen: HE'S ABOVE IT, LIKELY ACQUITTED TOMORROW.
THE MUELLER INVESTIGATION DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE.
>> HE BEAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL.
>> Stephen: EVERYBODY IS FALLING IN LINE.
ARE OUR CHECKS AND BALANCES BROKEN AT THIS POINT?
>> WE INTERVIEWED MORE THAN 200 ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS FOR
THIS BOOK, ADVISERS TO THE PRESIDENT.
AND A LOT OF THEM TOLD US IN THE INTERVIEWS THAT THEY ARE BROKEN,
THAT THE SYSTEMS ARE NOT WORK THE WAY THEY SHOULD.
THE INSTITUTIONS ARE BEING ERODED AND BEATEN DOWN BY A
PRESIDENT WHO SEES HIMSELF ABOVE ACCOUNTABILITY.
AND WE SAW AFTER THE MUELLER -- >> Stephen: IS THAT THE FAULT
OF THE PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE CHECKING HIM?
>> THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THAT ROOM WHO HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO
HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE-- A NUMBER OF REPUBLICAN SENATORS NOW SAID
THEY'RE GOING TO ACQUIT HIM, BUT THEY THINK WHAT HE DID WAS WRONG
OR IMPROPER OR NOT PROPER, WITH UKRAINE.
>> SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE INTERVIEWED SAID THAT THIS IS
THEIR NUMBER ONE FEAR, IS THAT HE'S LOWERING THE BAR.
THESE ARE REPUBLICANS WHO SPOKE TO US, BROKE THEIR SILENCE FOR
THE FIRST TIME, AND FINALLY SAID TO US, "LOOK, IF YOU'RE GOING TO
WRITE A HISTORY BOOK, I WANT YOU TO GET THE HISTORY RIGHT.
HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED IN THE ROOM."
AND THEY'RE GENUINELY CONCERNED THAT NOW IT'S GOING TO BE OKAY
TO USE TWITTER TO GO AFTER ANYBODY WHO TELLS THE TRUTH-- A
CAREER SERVANT LIKE LIEUTENANT COLONEL ALEX VINDMIN.
>> Stephen: WHEN HAS HE BEEN CONSTRAINED BEFORE?
PEOPLE HAVE SAID NOW THAT IMPEACHMENT IS LIKELY TO NOT
HAVE HIM REMOVED FROM OFFICE TOMORROW, NOW HE'LL BE OFF THE
CHAIN.
WHEN HAS HE EVER BEEN ON THE CHAIN?
I DON'T THINK WE'LL SEE ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL.
MAYBE FROM HIS FOLLOWERS OR THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL LIB RAIPTED BY
HIS ACQUITTAL.
I THINK HE'LL BE THE SAME.
>> IN 2017, HE DID HAVE PEOPLE GUIDING AND GUARDING AND
ADVISING HIM AND TRYING TO KEEP HIM IN SOME BOUNDARY.
>> Stephen: THAT WAS THREE YEARS AGO.
>> I KNOW.
THAT GUARDRAIL IS GONE.
THE PRESIDENCY PHIL AND I SEE NOW IS THE PRESIDENCY OF ONE.
THERE IS ONLY ONE PERSON MAKING THE DECISIONS AND HE'S USUALLY
BARKING AND BELLOWING THEM.
THE GUARDRAILS THAT TRIED TO GET THE PRESIDENT TO RECOGNIZE THE
LAW, RECOGNIZE THE INSTITUTIONS THAT WE AHEAD DEAR, RECOGNIZE
THAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS BLIND.
IT IS NOT A PARTISAN APARATCHIK.
WE HAVE A SCENE IN THE BOOK WHERE HE'S SCREAMING AT THE
TELEVISION, "WHY ISN'T MY F'ING JUSTICE DEPARTMENT DOING
SOMETHING FOR ME."
YOU.
>> Stephen: CALLED THE REPORTS ON HIM REQUESTS
DIZZYING."
WHAT WERE THE MORE DIZZYING MOMENTS?
>> YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN CHAOTIC REPORTING ON HIS ADMINISTRATION.
THAT'S WHY WE WANTED TO HIT THE PAUSE BUTTON AND DO THIS DEEPER
REPORTING, AND WE WERE SHOCKED BY SOME OF WHAT WE FOUND-- THE
LACK OF KNOWLEDGE HE HAD ABOUT WORLD HISTORY AND AMERICAN
HISTORY.
HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AT PEARL HARBOR, FOR EXAMPLE, HAD
TO ASK HIS CHIEF OF STAFF TO EXPLAIN IT WHEN HE WAS TOURING
THE USS "ARIZONA."
BUT WHEN HE SAT DOWN WITH THE INDIAN PRIME MINISTER, HE SAID,
"IT'S NOT LIKE YOU HAVE CHINA AT YOUR BORDER."
IT'S A LONG BORDER, INDIA AND CHINA.
>> 2,000 MILES.
>> Stephen: WE'VE GOT TO GO BECAUSE WE'RE LIVE.
BUT THE TITLE IS "A VERY STABLE GENIUS."
IS THAT PURELY IRONIC, OR DO YOU THINK HE IS A STABLE GENIUS OR
ANY ONE OF THOSE WORDS?
>> HE CHOSE THIS TITLE BECAUSE IT'S HIS DEFINITION FOR HIMSELF.
HE SAID IT FIVE TIMES NOW.
WHAT WE WANTED TO DO IS HOLD UP THE MIRROR AND TALK TO THE
PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH HIM DAY IN AND DAY OUT AND SEE IF THEY
AGREE.
MOST OF THEM DO NOT.
( LAUGHTER ).
>> Stephen: I'M ONE OF THE MOST.
CAROL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
FILM, NICE TO SEE YOU.
"A VERY STABLE GENIUS" IS AVAILABLE NOW.
PHILIP RUCKER AND CAROL LEONNIG, EVERYBODY!
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.