>> ARE YOUR ACTIONS MESSING AROUND WITH THE LONG ISLAND
SOUND? IT'S LIKELY THAT YOU DON'T THINK
ABOUT THE SOUND WHEN YOU HEAD TO THE CONNECTICUT RIVER.
BUT THINGS THAT WE DO HERE HAVE SOMETIMES MEANT BAD NEWS FOR
ANIMAL LIFE AND THE ENVIRONMENT THERE.
THAT'S PARTLY BECAUSE SEWER MAKES ITS WAY INTO THE RIVERS
HERE AND THEN HEADS DOWNSTREAM. BUT HOW MUCH SEWER?
WELL, A NEW WATER QUALITY TESTING PROGRAM MIGHT HOLD
ANSWERS. ANDREW FISK, DIRECTOR OF THE
CONNECTICUT RIVER CONSERVANCE, AND JOSHUA SCHIMMEL, EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF SPRINGFIELD WATER AND SEWER DEPARTMENT, EXPLAINED.
>> I THINK IT'S KIND OF THE NEXUS OF A COUPLE THINGS
HAPPENING. ONE, WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF
RECEIVING A NEW POLLUTION DISCHARGE PERMIT FROM E.P.A. AND
MASS DEP. AND THEN, 2, THERE'S AN
E.P.A.-DRIVEN STRATEGY ABOUT IMPROVING WATER QUALITY IN
LONG ISLAND SOUND. AND SOME OF THAT STRATEGY IS
LOOKING TO THE WATERSHED AREAS SUCH AS NORTH OF CONNECTICUT, SO
MASSACHUSETTS, VERMONT, NEW HAMPSHIRE, AS PART OF THE
CONNECTICUT WATERSHED. >> THESE PEOPLE LIVING HERE WHO
USE THE RIVER MIGHT NOT THINK ABOUT THE LONG ISLAND SOUND, BUT
BECAUSE YOU'RE HERE YOU'RE THINKING VERY LOCALLY, BUT THERE
IS AN IMPACT ALL THE WAY DOWN RIVER, RIGHT?
>> ABSOLUTELY. >> SO ALL FOUR WATERSHED STATES
AND OTHER PARTS OF -- ALL OF CONNECTICUT AND UP STREET AND
THE CONNECTICUT BORDER ALL HAVE SOME PORTION OF RESPONSIBILITY
FOR NOT ONLY LOCAL WATER BEING KLINKED BUTMAN CLEANED BUT ALSO
MAKING LONG ISLAND SOUND HEALTHY.
>> IN MEASURING THE LEVELS OF NITROGEN, THERE ARE TWO GAUGES
THAT HAVE BEEN PUT INTO PLACE, RIGHT?
ONE THAT'S CLOSER TO THE VERMONT BORDER AND ONE THAT'S CLOSER --
OR ACTUALLY IN CONNECTICUT? TO MEASURE THOSE NITROGEN
LEVELS? >> THE GAUGES ARE MEASURING FLOW
IN THE RIVER AND THEN THE SAMPLING PORTION IS DONE
MANUALLY AT THOSE TWO LOCATIONS. SO WE BECAME PART OF THIS AND
REALLY HELPED THEUNDING ALONG WITH -- THE FUNDING ALONG WITH
OUR PARTNERS WITH DEP. >> YOU'RE SHARING, FEDERAL,
STATE, AND LOCAL. >> YES.
SO THE STATE, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION, USGS AND SPRINGFIELD
WATER AND SEWER COMMISSION ARE FUNDING THE PROJECT.
AND IT'S TO GATHER MORE CONSISTENT, MORE ACCURATE DATA
AND MORE TIMELY DATA. A LOT OF THE DATA BEING USED TO
DEVELOP FOR PERMITS IN ORDER TO CLEAN UP LONG ISLAND SOUND IS SO
DATA. SO WE FELT STRONGLY IT WAS
IMPORTANT TO TAKE THE LEAD IN GATHERING NEW DATA THAT CAN HELP
MAKE SURE ANY DECISIONS THAT ARE GOING TO BE MADE IN THE UPPER
SECTION OF THE WATERSHED TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE DECISIONS ARE
BASED ON CURRENT DATA. AND SO THE STRATEGY WAS TO SEE
WHAT'S COMING IN TO MASSACHUSETTS, UP IN NORTHFIELD,
AND TO SEE WHAT'S LEAVING MASSACHUSETTS RIGHT OVER THE
BORDER IN CONNECTICUT AND THEN YOU KIND OF HAVE A MASS BALANCE
OF, THIS IS GAZINA AND THIS IS THE GOES OUT OF AND YOU CAN
FIGURE OUT WHO'S CONTRIBUTING WHAT.
>> BEFORE I DIG INTO THE WHO'S CONTRIBUTING AND HOW, CAN WE
TALK ABOUT WHAT THE IMPACT OF NITROGEN IN THE RIVER IS?
>> YEAH. THIS IS A CONVERSATION ABOUT
NUTRIENTS. AND SO THAT'S REALLY THE NEXT
PLACE THAT WE HAVE TO GO, IS FIGURING OUT WHEN YOU'RE PUTTING
NUTRIENTS INTO OUR FLOWING RIVER SYSTEMS, WHAT ARE THEY DOING.
HOW ARE THEY CREATING ALGAE GROWTH AND GOOD THINGS HAPPENING
FOR THE CRITTERS THAT LIVE IN THERE, BUT SOMETIMES TOO MUCH IS
A BAD THING. AND SO YOU'LL HAVE IMPACTS BOTH
RIGHT HERE WHERE YOU CAN HAVE A POLLUTION OR A NEW KREIENT
INPUT, WHETHER -- NUTRIENT INPUT, WHETHER IT'S A PARKING
LOT, A FARM, A PIPE, AND YOU'LL HAVE AN IMPACT DOWNSTREAM,
BECAUSE NITROGEN WILL TRAVEL ALL THE WAY TO LONG ISLAND SOUND AND
THERE IT DOES GOOD THINGS BUT IT'S ALSO DONE TOO MUCH OF A
GOOD THING WHICH BECOMES A BAD THING.
>> AND IT KILLS FISH AND OTHER ANIMAL LIFE, CORRECT?
>> YES. >> I THINK WHEN PEOPLE HEAR THE
WORD NUTRIENTS, THAT'S A GOOD THING.
I THINK WE COULD BE A LITTLE MORE DIRECT IN SAYING THAT
NUTRIENT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, SEWAGE, EITHER PARTIALLY TREATED
OR RAW OR OTHER THINGS. BUT FOR THE CITY OF
SPRINGFIELD'S AND FOR YOUR ROLE, JOSH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN
SEWAGE GETS INTO THE RIVER, RIGHT?
AND WE KNOW THAT SPRINGFIELD IS NOT THE ONLY COMMUNITY THAT'S
DOING THIS BUT YOU'RE HERE TODAY SO WE'RE HAVING YOU TALK ABOUT
IT. >> WE'RE THE LARGEST COMMUNITY.
AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE RIVER ITSELF IN
MASSACHUSETTS IS NOT IMPACTED BY NITROGEN.
IT'S ACTUALLY -- THE IMPACTS ARE IN THE SALTWATER.
AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF SOURCES OF NITROGEN NOT JUST WASTEWATER
TREATMENT PLANTS. THERE'S NONPOINT SOURCE,
AGRICULTURAL, URBAN RUNOFF, ET CETERA.
SO -- >> ALL OF US --
>> IT REALLY IS -- IT'S A MUCH MORE GLOBAL ISSUE, BEING
PROBABLY THE LARGEST CONTRIBUTOR FROM A WASTEWATER STANDPOINT, WE
FIGURED WE NEED TO TAKE THE LEAD IN GATHERING THE DATA.
AND IT'S DATA THAT WE HOPE IS GOING TO BE USEFUL FOR
EVERYBODY, NOT JUST OTHER TREATMENT PLANTS BUT FOR OTHER
ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE LOOKING AT WATER QUALITY.
AND I THINK THE OTHER THING, TOO, IS THE NUTRIENTS THEMSELVES
ARE NOT THE TOXIC ISSUE. IT'S THE NUTRIENTS CAUSAL GAL
GROWTH AND THAT GROWTH IS WHAT CAUSES A LOT OF OXYGEN IN THE
AQUATIC ENVIRONMENT IN LONG ISLAND SOUND.
AND THAT IS THE ISSUE OF HYPOXIA IN LONG ISLAND SOUND.
AND THAT LOSS OF OXYGEN HAS DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON PLANT
LIFE, ANIMAL LIFE, FISH LIFE, ELSE.
>> ANDREW, I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS ISSUE A LONG
TIME. A REPORT CARD FOR THE RIVER
RIGHT NOW, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IN OUR REGION
>> I DON'T WANT TO GIVE IT A GRADE BUT I'M GOING TO SAY IT'S
DOING REALLY, WELL. THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS ALL OF US
WHO PAY OUR UTILITY BILLS, THE RIVER IS IN REALLY, REALLY GOOD
SHAPE. BUT WHAT WE HAVEN'T DONE OVER
THE LAST 20 TO 40 YEARS IS LOOK AT THIS QUESTION OF NUTRIENTS.
THAT'S THE NEXT PLACE WE'RE GOING AND WE HAVE TO GO THERE
CAREFULLY, WITH GOOD INFORMATION.
AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE TIME. AND REAL BIG PROPS TO
SPRINGFIELD WATER AND SEWER COMMISSION, BECAUSE WE'VE NEEDED
THIS INFORMATION TORE A LONG TIME.
AND -- FOR A LONG TIME AND AN ORGANIZATION LIKE US, ALL WE CAN
DO IS WAVE OUR ARMS AND SAY, YEAH -- AND JOSH RECOGNIZES THIS
IS AND STEPPED IN AND SAID LET'S GET THIS DONE OF THE SO IT'S A
GREAT COLLABORATION. >> AND SO WHEN WOULD YOU SAY --
WHEN WILL YOU HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION THAT YOU CAN DO
SOMETHING ABOUT IT? >> WE NEED YEARS' WORTH OF
INFORMATION, BUT WE COLLECT DATA EVERY WEEK.
WE TRY TO COLLECT THE DATA. SO THE DATA IS ALREADY BEING
COLLECTED AND IT'S BEING LEAKED AT AND -- LOOKED AT AND I THINK
IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THERE ARE SEASONAL CHANGES IN
HOW NITROGEN COMES INTO THE RIVER AND WHAT HAPPENS TO IT IN
THE MASSACHUSETTS SECTION AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS TO IT WHEN IT
PASSES THROUGH CONNECTICUT AND INTO LONG ISLAND SOUND.
SO YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THIS IS A PROGRAM THAT IS NOT GOING
TO BE SHORT SIGHTED. I THINK WE NEED TO DO IT IN
CONTINUUM TO JUST SEE KIND OF WHAT KIND OF PROGRESS WE'RE
MAKING AND TO GIVE A BETTER INDICATION OF WHERE ALL THE
SOURCES ARE AND IF WE'RE GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM, WHICH FOR
WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS, IT'S A LOT OF CONCRETE, A LOT OF
MONEY. YOU CAN SAY IN NEW YORK AND
CONNECTICUT, THEY'VE SPENT IN THE BILLIONS WITH A B OF
DOLLARS, SPECIFICALLY ON NUTRIENTS.
AND SO AS THAT -- AS THE PROBLEM KIND OF HAS MOVED ITS WAY NORTH,
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE ALL THE COMMUNITIES IN MASSACHUSETTS, US
BEING THE LARGEST ONE, IF WE'RE GOING TO MAKE DECISIONS, WE'LL
MAKE DECISION BASED ON DATA THAT'S RELEVANT TO MASSACHUSETTS
MASS AND OUR SEGMENT OF THE RIVER TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE
IMPACTS ARE. IF THERE'S A SOLUTION THAT ISN'T
GRAY INFRASTRUCTURE, WHATEVER IT MAY BE AND IT COSTS LEGISLATION,
AND IT HAS A BETTER OUT -- COSTS LESS, AND IT HAS A BETTER
OUTCOME, WE SHOULD SHOULD BE LOT THAT.
IT'S A STRATEGIC DECISION FOR THE OVERWALLGOOD.
BUT EVERYBODY WANT -- OVERALL GOOD.
AND EVERYBODY WANTS TO SEE THE BEST OUTCOME.
WE'RE A KNOWN ENTITY -- >> THEY FIGURE YOU'RE A BAD GUY.
>> THE REALITY IS, IT'S A VERY COMPLEX, RIVER MARINE SYSTEMS
AND TOWN TO ESTUARIES ARE COMPLEX SYSTEMS.
>> OTHER STATES SPENDING BILLIONS DOLLARS ON THEIR ISSUE.
THERE'S SORT OF MIXED REVIEWS ABOUT THE IMPACT IN TERMS OF
IMPROVEMENT THAT IS THIS HAS MADE IN THE LONG ISLAND SOUND HO
HOW DO YOU SPEND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON SOMETHING BUT NOT SEE
THE IMPROVEMENT THAT I'M SURE YOUR GROUP WOULD LIKE TO SEE?
>> I THINK ALL OF US WANT TO SEE THOSE IMPROVEMENTS AND I THINK
LONG ISLAND SOUND ITSELF IS DOING IMMEASURABLY BETTER.
ONE OF THEM IS THE DIFFICULTY OF THE PROBLEM.
IT'S A COMPLEX ECOSYSTEM. A LOT OF IT IS BASED ON MODELS
AND DATA. AND THE PLAN THAT WAS PUT
TOGETHER FOR LONG ISLAND SOUND WHEN IT WAS ENACTED SAID, WE
DON'T THINK GOING THROUGH PHASE ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, IS
GOING TO GET TO US THE PLACE WE NEED TO BE.
AND THAT'S BASED ON -- UNCERTAINTY AS FAR AS OUTCOMES
AND INFORMATION. SO WE'RE HEADING FROM THE RIGHT
DIRECTION. WE'RE CHANGING WHAT A DEFINITION
OF A HEALTHY RIVER OR A HEALTHY ESTUARY IS.
BEFORE IT WAS JUST BASED ON A CHEMICAL MEASUREMENT LIKE
DISSOLVED OXYGEN. NOW IT'S GETTING BETTER BUT MORE
COMPLICATED BECAUSE IT'S SAYING HOW MUCH SUBMERGED AQUATIC
VEGETATION OR GRASS SHOULD BE IN LONG ISLAND SOUND BECAUSE THAT'S
HARBORING THE BABY FISH AND ALLOWING THE WATER TO GET BETTER
AND SO FORTH. >> IT'S TRICKY HOW IT'S ALL
INTERCONNECTEDDED. >> IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.
-- INTERCONNECTED. >> IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO
UNDERSTAND. IT'S NOT ONE PROBLEM.
THERE ARE MANY SOURCES. IT'S GOING TO TIME AND MONEY AND
THAT'S BASED ON GOOD INFORMATION AND THAT'S WHERE WE FEEL A
COMMITMENT TO COLLABORATE WITH EVERYBODY.
WE ALL SHOULD BE COLLECTING THIS INFORMATION TOGETHER AND THE
NEXT PHASE IS COLLECTING DATA IN BETWEEN THE TWO STATIONS AND
PUTTING A PLAN TOGETHER WITH ALL THE OTHER STAKEHOLDERS TO SAY
HOW DO WE FIGURE OUT WHERE THE SOURCESES ARE, BECAUSE SOME OF
IT MAY NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH A WASTEWATER TREATMENT
PLANT. IT IT MIGHTP SMER WHERE -- MIGHT
BE SOMEWHERE ELSE. >> IT'S DETECTIVES WORK.
THIS IS THE EARLY PHASE. THE NEXT PHASE, WHICH
CONNECTICUT RIVER -- CONSERVANCY -- I'M STUCK ON THE
OLD -- BUT WHICH WE'RE PARTNERING WITH THEM ON THEIR
LEAD ON A PROJECT TO FIGURE OUT A SAMPLING PROGRAM FOR THE
CEABLGHT -- CONNECTICUT RIVER. SO THE DETECTIVE PIECE WE KNOW
CONTRIBUTIONSES COMING FROM. WHAT OTHER RIVER MARINE SYSTEMS,
KIND OF SAMPLING TO SEE WHERE THE SOURCES OF NITROGEN ARE FROM
WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS AND OUTSIDE OF WASTEWATER TREATMENT
PLANTS. >> WE HAVE TO END IT FOR TODAY.
THANKS THANKS FOR COMING IN.