A marketing startup CEO has been
fired.
The reason why he's been fired is
because he was found to be
microdosing on LSD.
And it turns out that the board,
it's always the board,
wasn't too happy about it.
Iterable is the name of
the company, this is the marketing
startup we're talking about.
And they notified their
employees that the company's
board had dismissed Justin Zhu,
an alumnus of Google and
Twitter who co-founded the $2
million San Francisco based startup
along with Andrew Boni in 2013.
No one knows who Andrew Boni is,
and that's an irrelevant part of
the story.
But while the message to employees
cited unspecified violations of
company policy,
Zhu said he was ousted for taking
LSD before a meeting in 2019.
The former chief executive said he
was experimenting with microdosing,
which means taking a low dose of
the drug to boost his focus.
Zhu has been replaced,
I guess Boni is kind of relevant
because he's been replaced by Boni,
who wrote in an email to staff that
is co-founder's behavior undermined
the board's confidence in Justin's
ability to lead the company going
forward.
So I guess I need a few more
details because there were no
examples given.
So if you're showing up to work
feeling a little too good,
that could be problematic.
I totally get that.
But it seems like Zhu, it seems
like he takes his job seriously,
right.
Worked at Google and Twitter,
he co-founded this company,
the startup.
>> It's a multi-billion dollar
company.
>> Is it a multi-billion dollar
company now? >> Yes,
over $2 billion now.
>> I thought, Jesus.
>> No, they wrote it wrong in
the article, that's why.
They said 2 million in one place so
I double checked,
it's over $2 billion.
>> Let him go, like let him go.
No okay, look, I don't know,
I don't know enough details.
Maybe he was acting crazy at
work, right.
>> That's the thing.
>> Yeah. >> So look, they probably
didn't want to get into the details
for understandable reasons.
If you're going to dismiss the guy,
you don't need to rub
it in if he was acting crazy.
>> Yeah.
>> But I'm so mixed on this story.
>> Yeah.
>> So number one, that's why it's
an interesting story.
Number one, if you did LSD at work
you'd be fired, let's keep it real.
Okay, now that's- >> Would I?
>> Would you, I don't know.
>> What would you do if I came to
work high on LSD?
>> Well that's another wrinkle in
the story, which is that I probably
couldn't tell, right.
So since I'm such as square,
I never realized that people were
drunk or high at work or
in other areas outside of obviously
a dinner and clubs and
stuff I know people are drunk,
I'm not that square, right.
But I remember one time I was
working at a place and I was like,
yeah, Bob's kind of a funny guy,
right, and he does these
things I don't quite get.
And it might have actually
literally been bad, but
a friend of mine was like, that's
because he's on cocaine nonstop.
[LAUGH] >> And I was like, my god,
really?
And I remember thinking back then,
and I'm a grown ass man, right and
I was thinking, is that allowed?
And how does he work like that?
How does he work on drugs?
Do people do that?
Okay, and
it turns out people do that.
You know who does it a lot, and
that's why another reason why this
story's interesting, is some of
the richest people in the world.
>> Yes.
>> So those Silicon Valley
executives, that is an absolute
trend that they do microdosing.
There's no question about it, and
I have heard personal
stories about it.
>> Yeah, so both Bill Gates and
Steve Jobs have talked openly about
their experimentation with LSD, and
you're right.
Look, I wasn't being 100% serious
when I said let him go.
Like I said, I need more details.
If he was being problematic
at work,
obviously you gotta let him go.
But I do have a serious point to
make about using drugs at work
because far more people do it than
I think you realize.
>> Well apparently.
>> Yeah, and it's not to have fun.
I think that the current working
conditions that a lot of people
are undergoing convinces them that
they need to use certain narcotics,
certain drugs, certain supplements
in order to get through the day.
So for instance,
there's a giant trend
of journalists on amphetamines,
on things like Adderall to get
through the day, that is a thing.
And obviously with
college students,
that's a long reported story.
So the abuse of stimulants is very
common.
So the question is what is it about
the work place that makes workers
think that they need to take
something to have more focus or
they need to take something in
order to get through a typical
workday, you get what I'm saying?
>> Yeah, not buying it.
>> It was Brett, you and Brett,
man, birds of a feather.
>> Yeah, us, me and Brett.
>> Birds of a feather.
>> Okay, birds of whatever
feather, okay.
All right, so- >> He got fired up
about this during the production.
>> Yeah, so no, you don't have to
be on drugs to do your job, no.
Look, now this is easy to say and I
don't mean to be callous about it,
but try hard, I know it's not easy,
to get a different job where you
don't have to be stoned or
whatever to do it, right.
You don't have to numb the pain to
do that job.
It's super easy to say,
I know it's hard to do,
but try to go in that direction.
You're going, I hate this job,
but you know what, I'm just
going to do meth while I'm here.
It's not the right answer,
it just isn't, okay.
And I don't know what people
are like on LSD, so maybe it's
super obvious, maybe it isn't.
And I want to distinguish,
Bill Gates, I'm surprised,
I didn't know Bill Gates did it.
I know Steve Jobs did it,
I'm super surprised
Bill Gates did it and admitted it.
And so Bill Gates and
Steve Jobs experimenting with LSD's
different than the current trend,
okay.
The current trend is, and
it's not just LSD, it's shrooms and
other things where a ton, a giant
percentage of Silicon Valley
executives are microdosing.
That's why this probably sent shock
waves through Silicon Valley,
like wait, could we be fired for
being high on the job non stop?
Yeah, and look, microdosing,
you can call it microdosing but
you're high,
dude, that's why you did it.
>> I'm actually shocked that anyone
would be surprised that there would
be consequences for
microdosing once it's revealed that
an executive at a company is
microdosing.
Because think about it,
what happened immediately after
Elon Musk, during his own time,
while doing a podcast with
Joe Rogan decided to smoke weed?
He's not on the job, I mean look,
I have no love for Elon Musk,
don't get me wrong.
But who cares, he's smoking weed,
he's not on the clock, not that
he's ever really on the clock.
But you get what I'm saying,
he's enjoying the conversation,
he took a hit of the marijuana that
Joe Rogan gave him, and
then the stock price of Tesla went
tumbling as a result of that.
Temporarily of course, but
people still panic about drug use,
even when it comes to drug use
when people are on their own time,
enjoying themselves, and
using something
as relatively benign as marijuana.
>> Yeah, I saw thought it was the
craziest controversy I ever seen.
We did a poll, Elon Musk, yes or
no, our audience voted about three
quarters no,
it was just that simple.
>> They get it.
>> So they get it, and we're not
pro Elon Musk, but we're fair.
>> We're definitely fair.
>> So having marijuana is that
equivalent having a beer, so what,
you can't have a beer on your off
time that causes your stock price
to plummet, that's insane.
So if I was the board of or the
shareholders of Tesla I'd be like,
look dude, proof's in the pudding.
Is the stock
price going up or down?
Now there's other factors,
you should be good to your
employees, the community, etc.
But to me, I wouldn't care if I was
in that position, if Elon Musk was
high on the job for
marijuana or LSD.
I would care is he doing the right
things?
Yes, profitable, my God,
Tesla is through the roof.
I mean if he's high on the job,
in their position, I'd be like,
get everybody some weed, right.
So look, I think again I want to be
clear, there's other factors,
you should also be good to your
employees and
all those other things.
But the last
thing I'll say though about, again,
this is such a fascinating story,
is that they make LSD sounds so
good, and I don't- >> Jesus Christ.
>> No, I'm serious.
>> Please don't do it.
>> No, no, I know, but
Steve Jobs said he had this quote,
my job is to report the news.
He said that taking the drug was,
quote, one of the most important
things in my life.
>> Okay, I'm sure he meant that and
I do want to talk about the actual
medicinal aspect of this,
about magic mushrooms and LSD.
Because there have been
some studies, researchers,
scientists have been doing studies
on the possibility of using these
substances to help people who are
suffering from PTSD, depression,
anxiety, stuff like that.
And so just
to give you one example,
the Journal of Psychopharmacology
published a study in 2016 in which
researchers found that a one
time single dose of psilocybin, and
that's magic mushrooms, offered
rapid improvements in the levels of
anxiety, depression, and
dread of death in cancer patients.
A recent update found that
the single dose combined with
psychotherapy led to long lasting
improvements in these patients
approximately five years later.
So there have been more and more of
these studies coming out showing
that there is actually medicinal
use for it, but obviously under
a controlled environment, right,
and coupled with therapy as well.
>> Well look, if you've been
watching The Young Turks for the
last couple of years, you know that
I've fallen in love with Mary Jane.
And [LAUGH] so it's had some
of those effects on me and I
feel great, etc, it helps me focus.
And also it gets me high,
which I rather enjoy, okay.
So people never say that too,
they're like,
just sort of the medicine and
my joints and stuff.
No, it's also to get high and
it's awesome.
So you do that on your off time,
etc, and if you're a mess at work
of course there should be
ramifications for that.
But then I thought, Jesus, a little
bit of weed gives me that effect,
what would I be like on shrooms?
>> Shrooms is so different though,
Cenk, it's very different.
And I mean I've openly talked
about my experience with mushrooms.
The first time I tried it, which
was in a tea form, it was mild and
I rather enjoyed it.
The second and third time,
which was the last time I did it,
it was the worst.
It was the worst of times but
also the best of times,
because the experience as I was
experiencing it was awful.
It brings up all these awful things
that you don't even realize you
needed to deal with.
And then the next day you feel
like this massive weight has
been lifted off of your shoulders.
>> Stop because you're totally
talking me into it.
>> No okay, so maybe cool, but
just know I- >> But you know me.
>> I was sobbing uncontrollably the
entire time, it was not enjoyable
while I was experiencing it.
>> No, I know, but
sobbing isn't coming for me,
I'm coming for sobbing.
>> Okay, that's what you think.
>> [LAUGH] I think coming for
sobbing doesn't really help, okay.
[LAUGH] But I like that kind of
stuff of dealing with issues,
sorting things out, solving things,
so who knows.
Anyways guys,
just be careful, okay, and
don't go around doing meth at work,
it's a bad idea.
[LAUGH] And
if you're going to take LSD,
It's a super powerful drug,
be super duper careful with it.
And I would not recommend doing it
at work, and neither would Zhu.