Please welcome Omarosa Manigault Newman.
-♪ ♪ -(cheering and applause)
Welcome.
(chuckles)
(squeaks)
Welcome to the show.
I got to get all this jelly up in this chair now.
(laughs)
You are one of the few people who I would say
-has managed to out-Trump Trump. -(laughs)
You've created a firestorm.
You are covering the news.
He's tweeting incessantly about you.
Let's go in on the book first
before we get into the recordings.
So, Unhinged: An Insider's Account
of the President Trump White House.
-Now, I've read through the book-- -But before we get
into it, can I apologize to you first?
-What are you apologizing for? -I have to tell the audience
that I was actually supposed to be on the show
when I was in the administration,
but the press secretary canceled it.
And so I just want to apologize to you,
-'cause I was looking forward to it. -Oh. Oh, no. There's--
-You're here now. That's all that matters. -I'm here now!
-Yeah, you're here now. -(cheering and applause)
You're here now.
And to be fair to you, I should warn you,
-this is being recorded. Um... -(laughing)
-The... -(cheering and applause)
The book that you wrote
is a book of your account from being inside the White House.
-Yes. -Now, if I had read this book
and knew nothing about the Trump administration,
I would say that all of it is a lie.
I would say that all of it is wildly untrue,
just because of the stories that are so extreme.
But because of what we've experienced
and what we've learned about the White House,
I'm reading the book, going, like, "Uh-huh, uh-huh.
And? Uh-huh, uh-huh." Honestly-- not in a bad way--
but it doesn't seem like there's anything new in the book.
So why-why write it?
What did you think this book would add
to the conversation we have about Donald Trump?
When you say there's nothing new in the book,
it's not just about Donald Trump.
-Right. -It also talked about my childhood.
I talked about the difficulty
going through my father's murder,
my brother's murder, and a lot of things,
like my family surviving a house fire that killed my cousin.
So those are things that I've never talked about publicly.
So there are actually new things in the book.
Right. New things in the book about yourself.
But Unhinged, I guess, gives people
an insider's account of the Trump White House.
-I mean, that's-that's what the book talks about. -Yes.
And when you came out with this book, everyone said,
"Look, Omarosa, what are you going to tell us?
Nothing new, really."
There are a few accounts
that the White House has disputed here.
Um, did you expect that when you wrote the book?
Oh, absolutely.
Because they lie to the American people every single day.
So it doesn't surprise me that,
when they're faced with the truth, they'll push back.
Right. And what's interesting is the question
that immediately springs to mind when you say that is,
you were part of an organization and a team that lied
-to the American people every day. -Oh, unfortunately.
And I regret that, that I was totally complicit.
But I didn't go in thinking we were gonna lie.
In fact, when I sat through my first briefing
with Sean Spicer when he said
that this was the biggest inauguration
-in the history ever... -Right.
...I was sitting there going, "Well, do I have lying eyes,
or is he lying?" And...
Because everyone knows it wasn't the biggest.
And so, from the beginning, it got really, really bizarre,
-but I tried to stay focused on my portfolio... -Right.
...which was helping the African-American community.
-Now, we'll get to that in a second, but... -Yeah.
but what's interesting is, you talk about in the book
how you managed to create a distinction in your mind
between Donald Trump pre-presidency
-and Donald Trump post. -Mm-hmm.
So you genuinely believe that the Donald Trump you knew
from The Apprentice and from the time you had spent together
would someone change once he moved into The White House?
That he would stop telling white lies
or, you know, leaving out truths or omissions?
You genuinely believed that knowing him?
I hoped that he would rise to the occasion.
I mean, to the greatest honor
-that any person could have. -Right.
Only 45 people have ever sat in that office.
I thought that he could actually rise to the occasion
of being presidential, and, boy, was I wrong.
I mean, every single day,
he dismantles the dignity of that office.
When you were working with him, you just spoke to the fact
that you had what you took really seriously
as a role in the administration.
Everyone talks about what your role is.
What did you believe your role was?
My-my role had two folds.
Um, I was director of communication
for the Office of Public Liaison,
which means that I was a spokesperson
for diverse communities.
But there was not anyone appointed
to work with the African-American community
or on those issues, and so, I took that on, as well.
They told me they would appoint someone.
I think President Obama had 15 or 16 people
-appointed to that office. -Right.
We had no one, so I was doing double duty
in the communications job, and taking on the issues
that were so important to the black community.
And when you look at President Trump's time in office now,
do you feel like your time made an impact?
Oh, it did. I particularly remember flying to Haiti
for the inauguration of the president there,
and the commitments that we made
during the community... um, during our campaign
to help that particular community
that's still rebuilding.
And when I went there and they saw a representative
that looked like me, a person of color,
they were so excited, and they actually believed
that this community...
that this administration was gonna help that community.
-Right. -When we did all the work we did
for the HBC community, um, and we brought the students--
100 HBCU all-stars to The White House,
and to see the look on the faces of the students--
that made it worthwhile.
When we travelled
to African-American historical museums,
and I tried to educate him,
I knew that if I could just get him to the truth,
then maybe he could accept it, or maybe it would absorb in.
But I thought the work was incredibly important.
He didn't take it very seriously.
So it's interesting that you say you thought
that he would accept the truth. Which truth?
The truth is that we have a big responsibility
to actually fulfill all of the campaign promises that we made.
In fact, I made a long list, as you'll see in the book,
-of all the things he said he would do. -Mm-hmm.
For instance, Chicago.
He said he would help to reduce the violence in Chicago,
and as we know, having seen 600 murders over this weekend,
that he has done nothing,
and he has refused to even travel to Chicago.
We said that we would help the people of Flint
to get clean water, and as we know,
there's still no clean water there.
-Those were the things that... -Well, I believe...
I believe the water is of an acceptable standard now,
but maybe... some people say that not enough was done.
-But what I've read is that... -If you still have to boil
your water, it's not acceptable in this country.
It's not acceptable that there's still brown water
coming out of the spigots, and we should have done better.
We should have done better by Puerto Rico, and we have not.
And there were a lot of things that he made commitments to
that he just did not fulfill.
Did you ever feel like there was a disconnect
between what you were trying to do in the White House
and how the African American community perceived you
in the country?
Because I don't know if you, you know,
read opinions about yourself online
or see what people talk about on the news.
And it's always selective, don't get me wrong,
but, you know, there are many people who said, like,
"Oh, Omarosa has stopped representing black people.
She's there representing Omarosa."
Did you feel like there was a disconnect
between yourself and the African American community?
Well, first of all, Trevor, the African American community
-is not a monolith. -True.
We don't have just group-think. We don't all group-think alike.
And so there were those who felt like there should be
no African Americans at the table,
but I thought that we shouldn't have people making decisions
about us without us.
And so there are people who felt like,
"You shouldn't be there, walk away,"
and there were people who said, "We need a seat at the table,
we need someone negotiating these deals for us."
And so yes, there was this big dichotomy
between people's perceptions of me and what I should be doing,
and people rooting for me
and people who were not cheering for me.
So, if we take a step back and we look at this journey
that you went on with the White House, you know?
I will say, in your defense,
Ivanka has said a similar thing in that there's many things
she wanted Trump to do and he hasn't done.
There's people who've said, "Trump takes his own course,
and he may or may not listen to his advisors."
You were working in this White House,
and you watch a president who says disparaging things
about Mexicans, about Muslims,
about NFL players being sons of bitches,
about Africans from shit-hole countries.
As this is unfolding--
-and I know you talk about it in the book, -Oh, I do.
but as this is unfolding, is there a breaking point for you,
or do you feel like you still have an opportunity
to make a change?
Well, there were quite a few breaking points,
as you'll see in Unhinged, and every single time
he said something, at first I thought,
"Is he doing this intentionally?"
And then, when I realized that he was mentally impaired,
that he was declining, then I thought that I...
(laughter)
(whooping, applause)
It would be funny if it wasn't true.
Um, I thought, okay, I'll find someone to do the work,
I'll find someone to replace me, another African American advisor
so that there wouldn't be a void, and then I'll leave.
But as of now, seven months later,
there is still no African American assistant
to the president advising him on issues
related to race diversity or the black community.
It's interesting, though,
you worked with Pastor Darren Scott,
-Mm-hmm. -who, um, held a meeting with Trump
and black pastors recently, and he said that Donald Trump
is the most pro-black president
of our lifetimes.
-(laughter) -And...
-you-you worked with him, -Mm-hmm.
and in some ways it seemed like you believed that
in some way when you were in the administration,
so what do you think has changed in you leaving?
Is there something that leaving the White House
gives you a perspective on, that, like, would...
If he left, would he change his tune as well, do you think?
Well, first of all, I can't speak for Pastor Scott,
but I can say that it's very hard to say
that you are a pro-black president
when you lock your only assistant to the president
in the Situation Room for two hours,
which General John Kelly, who makes threats that says,
"Things can get ugly for you,
and there'll be damage to your reputation."
It goes completely against the grain
that you are pro-black when you would treat somebody
who worked so hard for this administration that way.
Let's talk about that.
The recordings have been an interesting twist
-and conversation in and around this book. -Yes.
And you've said something
that has really stuck with me and that was,
had you not made the recordings, nobody would believe you.
-Would you have believed me? -No, I wouldn't have.
I wouldn't have believed you, genuinely,
because I don't think I believe many
of the people that come out of the White House
because you don't know what to believe
when you've been gaslighted to a point
-you don't know what the truth is. -Right.
And so you made these recordings.
But I would like to understand--
before we get into the recordings themselves
and how you made them--
why did you feel you needed to make the recordings
when you started making them?
Well, I have to be very careful because, as of today,
Donald Trump has decided to sue me
or to bring litigation against me to silence me
and to not allow me to tell my story,
so I will answer your question,
but I don't want you to think I'm coy.
I just have a whole host of attorneys who are telling me
-to not give Trump -Right. Understandably.
the ammunition.
But I will say, um, as you said,
this White House has a credibility issue.
If I would have told you that General Kelly threatened me
with court martial, you would look at me and go,
"That's just another lie that the White House has told."
I knew that I had to cover my back
and document what I saw
as an opportunity to kind of blow the whistle
on a lot of the corruption going on in the White House.
And I knew that I needed to document that corruption,
otherwise people would not take it seriously.
I've also noticed that you are not releasing
all the recordings at once.
Like, you're releasing all the singles,
and we're waiting for the album.
(laughter)
So is there a strategy behind this?
Because it feels like, to me,
you're saying something on TV,
the Trump administration contradicts you,
and then you release a tape that shows them to be lying,
and then you do the same thing over.
Is that your long-term game plan?
No. I'll be honest, when, um, Katrina Pierson came out
and made that long statement that she had never had
any conversations related to the "n" word tape,
she never remembered talking to me, none of that happened,
in fact, she said I was writing a script for a movie,
I was sitting back going, really.
And I-I never intended to, um, to share that.
I didn't even remember that I really had it,
but when she was just so vehement that it never happened,
I was like, it never happened? Not one conversation?
And she went on and on, and so I did.
I decided to share it to expose her,
Lynne Patton, Jason Miller and the Trump campaign.
Because there was a lot of talk about this "n" word tape
that so many people are pursuing,
and that, you know, folks refuse to release.
And so, yes, I shared it, but I'm not trolling them.
I just want them to know
that everything that you see in Unhinged, that's quoted,
can be verified as documented and corroborated.
Do you ever worry about yourself?
I mean, it's a very--
-genuinely, this is a... -(laughter)
this is an interesting position to be in, um,
where you have recordings from inside the White House,
the Situation Room, etcetera,
nobody knows what conversations you have recorded.
Is there even a little piece of you
that's worried about your safety?
Trevor, I would say this:
If you see me in a fight with a bear,
pray for the bear.
-(cheering and applause) -(Noah laughs)
The, um, the recordings that you have...
are extremely, extremely high-quality.
And I know that you don't want to tell anyone
how you recorded these conversations,
but would you consider endorsing the product...
(laughter)
...so that women out there in the workplace
who want to record things...
'Cause, like, these are some of the best recordings
we've ever heard, like, ever.
Did you practice, or was this just...?
You know I can't comment on the tapes.
(laughter)
Before I let you go, um...
let's talk about the issue of racism and Donald Trump.
In the book, you say when you first met with Donald Trump
and you worked with him, you believed that he was racial
and he was someone who, I guess, dealt in race,
-but you didn't think that he was racist. -Yeah.
When he brought up Obama's birth certificate
and claimed that he was a secret Muslim from Kenya, etcetera,
did that not...
did that not say to you that this man...
was someone who harbored racist views?
Oh, yeah, and I talk about in Unhinged
when I confront him about the birther issue.
The first thing he said is that Hillary Clinton and her campaign
actually started the birther issue,
and then he said, "It's just politics,
and I'm just, you know, doing this for political reasons."
And so, unlike most of America, I had a chance
to take him to task on a lot of these issues.
And I had a blind spot when it came to Donald Trump.
As I explained to you, I met him back in 2003
when I was a young, up-and-coming businesswoman.
I wanted to lead one of his companies,
and, you know, he inspired me. I wanted to be a billionaire.
I grew up in the Westlake projects,
and I wanted to be wealthy,
and that's who I thought I could aspire to be.
But boy, has he been a great disappointment.
And because I did have this blind spot
and I was blindly loyal,
and I look like the biggest dummy following this person
because I didn't have that same perspective.
And sometimes you have to step back
in order to get a clear view,
and I recognized that I was going down the wrong path
-with Trump. -Right.
Now you're in a position where...
like a TV show on CBS,
you are the bad guy who's come to the other side
and says, "Here's the inside information."
-So in the... -(laughs) Wait. Wait, wait, wait.
I'm the... Wait, I'm the bad guy with the...?
Yeah, you know, like in those TV shows.
Like, the bad guy's like, "Oh, I'm not working
for them anymore. I'll help the FBI."
-Um, so... -(laughter)
-(cheering and applause) -So, I wanted to talk about...
There's something in the epilogue
that I found interesting because there are things
we cannot deny about what you said.
So, for instance, just a few things,
like, um... Penn tweeted today--
another former Celebrity Apprentice contestant--
and he came out, and he said,
"Actually, I have heard Donald Trump
"saying disparaging comments, racially insensitive comments
during the taping of The Apprentice."
Did you feel that that in some way vindicates you?
Well, I think it does,
because I know that there are others
who experienced that with him.
And I'm glad that Penn is speaking up
because I was kind of like that lone person,
that lone voice, and now he is kind of validating
-what I've said. -Right.
And-and this is interesting.
When you-you... In the epilogue,
you give everyone a piece of advice,
and you talk about how the president is...
putting us in a critical time in history.
And what you say is he thrives on the conflict.
-He likes the insults. -Mm-hmm.
He loves fighting and mobilizing his base.
-Yes. -So, what is the one insight
you can give us into Trump that isn't a scoop
but rather something in helping us understand
somebody you've known for 15 years?
So, if you were going up against Donald Trump--
as you are, but not really--
what would you suggest to people then?
There's one way to shut Donald Trump down,
and that is just don't give him the oxygen.
And the oxygen comes from the clicks, the likes,
the shock, the discussions.
Like when he attacked LeBron James
and everybody was just, "Oh, my God."
Donald Trump enjoyed every moment of that.
He enjoyed every single person that was shocked
by his abrasiveness,
his attack on this African American male athlete,
which is his favorite, go-to thing.
He loved it, and he thrived off of it.
If you ignore him, then you starve him
of the thing that he loves the most,
and that is controversy and attention.
-Thank you so much for being on the show. -Thank you, Trevor.
(cheering and applause)
Unhinged is available now.
Omarosa Manigault-Newman, everybody.