Welcome to Voice for Values I'm Martyn Iles last week I introduced you to Walt Heyer
One of the first people in the world to be diagnosed with gender
dysphoria and undergo a gender reassignment surgery. Although the
transgender agenda is increasingly promoted by politicians, schools and
academics. Walt has a very different view he spoke last week of his difficult
journey into transgender regret and ultimately a process of de-transitioning
to live once again as a man he has lived the transgender life he has helped
countless others through his transgender regret counseling ministry his
experience is enormous and his insights are compelling. In particular because his
experience began as a child Walt has a lot to say about the impact of gender
ideology on our kids. This week he and ACL'S Director of Research Dr. Elisabeth
Taylor zero in on the dangers of indoctrinating children and their
parents into the gender agenda. Walt, you were talking to us last week about the
transgender movement how an ideology is being introduced to children and imposed
on children and this idea of transgenderism being sold to children
that this isn't an idea that children come to themselves this is something
that's introduced to them by the adult world and one of the phrases that you
left with was that they are manufacturing transgender adults by
introducing children to these ideas. Can you tell me who would want my
understanding is that living a transgender life is very distressing and
it's very difficult because you're continually having to maintain a facade
of being something that you're not and that that in itself is a difficult thing
so if a transgender life is a difficult life why would we want to encourage
people into it? Well, there's a lot of people who believe deep down in their
heart that they're helping their children but if we're not manufacturing
them let's go back four or five years how many transgender kids were there if
our a few yeah if you go back 10 years you can't even find one yeah that's
right yeah so if we haven't been manufacturing him let's go back and just
chart through the years when you saw your first transgender kid in school
the only time they've been fostering this juggernaut of transgender kids is
through the indoctrination and affirmation and grooming kids toward
changing genders so adults in fact are manufacturing transgender kids who
otherwise would not be if we didn't affirm groom and help them in that
direction. So are they well-meaning but misguided? That's probably the kind thing
you could say I I know some parents who and I'm shocked and disheartened myself
was I looked on the internet and if you look up transitioning you're just sort
of overwhelmed by the returns on Google of how to affirm your child in a
transgender identity and there's there's nothing else it's just here are the key
stages and this is how you go about it and this is why it's so important and a
wonderful thing so I can really sympathize with parents who are faced
with this and their expressions that they trust explain to them that no this
is that in the best interest of their child that these are the protocols that
they must observe and unless you know to Google detransitioning or sex change
regret or gender critical unless you know those terms then you won't come up
with any Google searches that say that there's another way or that this so I
think one of the things that's overwhelming is everybody's suddenly
singing off the hymn sheet and you walk into this kind of wall of sound where
everyone agrees the only thing to do is to affirm this transgender identity for
a child as though that's a fixed property of the child's identity and yet
we know from what you were saying that most of those children if they're
allowed to go through puberty normally will come out of the other side of
puberty fairly feeling you know relaxed in their own body and and comfortable
being a boy or a girl yeah well I think what we have we're fostering this whole
transgender thing because we there's a website called 4th way now I believe
No, Fourth Wave Now. yes and and it has primarily younger people some older
people posting on there but there was nor was her Noor Jontry who was
transitioned at eleven came back at 14 and wrote a great piece on the saying
that the whole transgender thing is pretty much nonsense
She detransitioned back to the girl she was and stop being the boy and she had
some excellent ways of putting this whole thing about how she wanted to be a
boy to be protected she felt stronger that she was in better
control but she realised that all kids have difficulty with their body image
but do not take on a transgender identity this is from a
fourteen-year-old who's saying don't do this and so right now it's become a
contagious behavior mm-hmm we've developed a contagion of transgender
identities that's affirmed and pushed by our governments and schools safe schools
are the unsafe schools I'm so sorry that we've gotten down this
pathway because what I'm wondering now is are the government's going to be
willing to pay for the detransitions and for the psychotherapy that these young
people are going to need when they have regret and when they're attempting
suicide they have deeper depression and they're
in mental hospitals who's going to help them then. yes no I have explained this
problem to a group of lawyers who were literally rubbing their hands and saying
the words class-action oh but it's going to be ten years down the line exactly
and meanwhile how much human suffering is there between between now and then
but I think one of the things that's extraordinary is that teachers
politicians that there's the Education Department policies the medical
profession including psychologists and gender specialists all of these people
that we would expect to have the best interests of children at heart
all saying though the one thing and if you want to find somebody who speaks on
the other side and who counsels caution on this. Well, they have a very difficult
time speaking up about it and we have been fortunate at ACL to be in contact
with Professor John Whitehall who's a pediatrician and he would like you were
saying that 50 years ago he consulted with a number of his pediatrician
friends and he said between us we had about 900 years of experience and we
across maybe twelve children in that time and in almost all of those cases
there was some severe abuse yes or mental comorbidities there were other
factors work there and yet you know his message certainly hasn't been picked up
by the media and broadcast everywhere is the good news for parents that by the
way this is not something that you probably need to worry about and rather
he's had his appointment at the university questioned sure should this
man really be speaking on a subject in which he's not an expert well he's a
pediatrician with 50 years experience but he's not a gender expert so how is
it that the gender experts have suddenly gained such influence well they're being
pushed persuaded and legally threatened if they don't tow the line so people
have actually no choice when they're pressured by their government to follow
these rigid guidelines I say if we open up the guidelines and let people
detransition or let people object openly to this and not push these agendas and
that allow kids to change genders in school schools are for reading writing
arithmetic and education not for changing genders we have totally misused
our schools we no longer allow parents to parent we have no the government
doing the parenting I just want to know is the government willing to assume all
the responsibility for the suicides and deaths
that this horrible process is going to cause them 10 and 15 and 20 years from
now that's a big question no one's willing to answer I'm afraid no that's
right and and the way you put it is there is abuse going on and they would
say that it's abusive to not affirm a transgender identity and you're saying
very clearly that it's abusive to do that absolutely because we're we're
starting things like body dysmorphic disorder dissociative disorder
schizophrenia bipolar disorder anxiety and depression which are key components
with this and yet we say there's no mental disorder well I'm sorry
depression is a mental disorder ladies and gentlemen that needs to be treated
absent of hormone therapy and should be done by a good psychiatric doctor or
therapist and helping them through they may need medication so that they don't
run down and commit suicide although 50% of them apparently are
attempting to do so that's just shocking well thank you very much Walter we'll
come back in just a moment. Voice for Values at acl.org.au
okay so just to pick up Walt on what you were saying a moment ago about the
the rate of suicide and the mental disorders because I understand that
there are a lot of mental comorbidity so one of the things that's interesting is
that we all seem to agree that these children are suffering that their mental
outcomes are lower than for other children who don't have transgenderism
now the argument has been made by the transgender advocates that the reason
for that is stigma that we need to change society because there's nothing
wrong with being transgender it's just like having red hair or it happens all
the time in and there are various different theories about how that might
happen I know some people think that we're all transgender to some extent in
which case the whole business loses its meaning doesn't it because all that says
is that we all express our gender in different ways which i think is fine as
long as we understand that you know this is a man and this is a woman and men and
women can do and express themselves and do whatever they like but this doesn't
change who they really are the biological reality but what we're being
told now is that teenagers who are suicidal that that's because society is
insufficiently affirming of them and particularly parents and I've seen this
in America and a few cases here in Australia where the doctors get hold of
these these children and they are absolutely persuaded that they have the
right answer and the right answer is for this child to transition and that if
there's a parent who says do you know what I just like to hold off on the
puberty blockers or the cross-sex hormones I think we should exercise just
cautious waiting let's just wait give you the cross sex hormones it's because
they're transphobic they don't love you for who you really are and that they
actually hate transgender people more than they love you that's a
heartbreaking lie to tell to a child and it's also not true I know these parents
and they would do anything to help their child particularly the main
thing that they're worried about is that their child doesn't kill themselves so
they will even go along with okay will affirm you in another identity but
that's a tragic thing to introduce to the child so it seems to me that there's
two lies going on one is that there is an essential you which is different to
your body and the and the other is that if people don't go along with this
agenda it's because they don't love you and it seems to me that it's tapping
into essential human needs we need to be known for who we are and loved anyway
yeah and and that that's what's being denied to these kids in this process
well yeah if you have a parent who wants to affirm the child and who they really
are then they're at odds with the people who don't want them to be who they
really are which are these people who are transgender advocates because they
want to see all these different behaviors the truth is suicides and
suicide attempts are the direct cause not of society not of anybody lack of
affirmation it's because of depression every transgender child who is trying to
be affirmed in someone who they aren't this is why they become depressed when
when a child knows who they are and they go why is somebody trying to change me
there must be something wrong with Who I am
mhm and so oh that's kind of I'm looking at who I who I really am they want me to
be somebody who I'm really not that's kind of depressing the other thing is
that psychologically healthy psychologically emotionally and sound
children don't attempt suicide children who are happy with their gender people
are happy with their environment are happy children aren't trying to end
their life it's because they're deeply distressed by being told and affirmed in
someone who they're not so we really need to think about this it's it's
totally the opposite of what they're trying to tell you yes just flip sides
yes our safe schools are unsafe and we're trying to affirm people in who
they're really not not who really are so everything is upside-down
and backwards and that's the way people want to do it today sadly that's just
extraordinary. One of the lines that I remember one of your
articles was that we're conducting an experiment on a whole generation of kids
and we've got no idea how this will end but the indications are that it's not
going to end well so how can we I think one of the staggering things is that
this has just got through and it's been railroaded through policy so we even
have we know that Roz Ward has transitioned 100 kids in schools we know
that the Victorian government has a policy whereby schools can transition a
child without parental knowledge or consent without consulting a doctor and
the same in South Australia in New South Wales the Education Department says that
parents who don't affirm a transgender identity may be considered a risk of
abuse and teachers need to consider their mandatory reporting obligations so
this apparatus and we also know that the opposition party at federal level has a
policy of acknowledging that this will be abuse if parents do not affirm a
transgender identity for their child even though we know that that's a road
that has terrible medical consequences for a child, you would want from compassion
to help that child avoid that road if at all possible and yet parents who want to
stand in the way of that will now be considered abusive it just seems to me
extraordinary that the the strong arming of the law to make sure that people can
transition can identify with any gender other than their biological one safely
and and but it can't come back and that people who want to help them come back
are now being criminalised. Can you talk a little bit about how that's playing
out overseas well again what we know is that when we're we've continued to
affirm people we've got some history now these affirmations this program has done
nothing to reduce suicide attempts and suicides for any age group still the
older people age 25 and above are still attempting suicide at a rate of over 40
percent so we know this is not any other quote medically necessary affirmation
procedure that would get a 40% attempted suicide radar with
young people 50% attempted suicide rate would immediately be abolished yep as
absolute quackery yes and so we've allowed this quackery freedom to move
forward and so when when we're telling people they're not who they are and then
affirming in them that that is abuse so again when we say not affirming them as
abuse the truth is by affirming them we're abusing them so again anything you
hear from that whole advocate side turn it around because the truth is on the
other side and what they're saying. Right, wow and in Chile you were telling me
before that they have laws against people detransitioning now yes they've
had laws in place where once you transition it's against the law to
detransition back so I was there to speak to this to the people who don't
understand that you can detransition back and to try to help them understand
that there's going to be suffering people we have hundreds of thousands of
people detransitioning back today one of the biggest movements in this whole
quote transgender movement is detransitioning regret you know people
have found that they don't have to commit suicide they can just
detransition and their many websites now might happen to be the first one now
they're popping up all over and so there's people out there helping people
and letting them know that you don't need to stay in this complete nonsense
transgender identity which is really a behaviour it's not an identity and so
once you find out that it was nonsense you feel the pain of having gone through
it you had your fun and the party's over now you've got a hangover what I call a
transgender hangover it's time to sober up and get your life back and find out
and reassume who you really are and stop playing the nonsense of a transgender
identity I bet that's not landing well with the advocates for the other side
well it's not landing well with the people who live the life it's not
landing well with the people who are under gravestones who
suicide because no one was there to help them I'm here to save lives
people understand that who are on the side of coming out and they understand
that when they come out the other side they need help and I'm the one with the
compassion helping them and are disturbed by the fact that we're trying
to affirm people in a gender and an identity of which they're not just to
further some big agenda that has absolutely nothing but a political basis
to it there's no it's total medical nonsense yeah we're so grateful to you
Walt coming to Australia and sharing your message with us and particularly
someone from your experience in your background and your obviously deep
knowledge of the subject and we thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with
us and god bless you my pleasure thank you. Voice for Values from the Australian
Christian Lobby at acl.org.au