That's when you realise it could work, when the sound goes in there.
But up until that point, no fingernails left.
There's a lot of swapping senses in this film.
For example, instead of hearing footsteps or hearing the breath,
you kind of just see it, which is really, really interesting.
How did you create this really unique approach to the film?
Well, there's so many-, I don't know if it's a hidden secret,
but one of the things about being a director is
you're really just taking credit for hundreds of people's work.
So many people contribute to the making of a film,
and then of course, I'm sitting here doing the publicity,
but people like Will Files who's the sound mixer,
Will is a really esteemed sound mixer in Los Angeles.
He's done some huge movies, we were lucky enough to get him for this.
He and I had a great time with the sound design
and mixing it, like you said, in a counter-intuitive way,
like you would hear things you were supposed to see
and see things you were supposed to hear.
So I would say it's all about utilising talented people.
I can't take credit for it.
It's really about the cinematographer,
the sound mixer, and all these crew members.
They make it what it is.
Working with a lot of genuises, then?
Absolutely.
Leigh, you've gone from acting in horror films to directing your own.
How do you create the sense of horror and dread?
It's a hard thing to do, as Jason will attest,
because the thing is, it doesn't feel dreadful and horrific on the set
because you have 100 people standing around
and there's the craft service table over there.
What you have to do is hope that, once it gets into a dark room
months and months later, you get it to that point.
But when you're shooting on the set, it can be quite nerve-racking
because you're like, 'This doesn't feel scary at all.'
'This feels really tepid.'
The power of sound design, the sound mixing stage is always
where I'm the happiest during the making of a film,
because that's when you suddenly realise,
especially with a horror movie,
that's when you realise it could work, when the sound goes in there.
But up until that point, no fingernails left.
- Fix it in post? - Yeah.
(laughter)
So you both must have understood the sensitivity
of approaching a story so centred around the abuse of women.
Why did you think that horror was the right way
to approach this particular story?
I don't think it really happens like that.
I don't think either one of us set out to make a story about abuse
and then landed on The Invisible Man.
I think really, we landed on The Invisible Man,
and then Leigh started thinking about it and Leigh came up with this story.
And I think Leigh, like all great artists,
is affected by what's happening now in the world.
So, during the creative process, you can speak to it better than I can,
I think that has an impact,
and so that Invisible Man became about that.
But it happened that way as opposed to the other way around,
as opposed to thinking of a topic
and then creating a movie around that topic.
I was always trying to guess where the Invisible Man was in the shot
and it was just really interesting to watch.
How did you create horror when it was invisible on the screen?
I know sound was very much involved but are there any other tricks?
There's no tricks to it, that's what's frustrating.
I wish there was.
I wish there was a manual that you could consult.
- I do too.
'Excuse me guys, take five. Chapter five.'
Then a lot of directors could do it.
Unfortunately, there are only about ten, eight directors
who can do scary really well like Leigh.
Yeah, I mean, I feel like I learned from the best, watching James Wan.
I feel like James Wan has a really rigorous approach to scares.
He never wants to take the easy way out.
He knows that the audience expects A and he wants to give them B
where they least expect it, and he's constantly out-faking,
So I think I absorbed a lot from watching him work.
But it's never easy and it's never-,
every time you go up to bat, you feel like you're gonna miss,
like, 'This one's gonna be a strike.'
It's just, it's never like, 'Oh, I've got it sorted out now.'
'Now I know what to do.'
It's always like, 'Oh God, what if this doesn't work out?'
Well, you've got to fail to get somewhere, don't you?
- Exactly. - That's true.
What do you love about the cinema experience, just in general?
- About going to movie theatres? - Yeah, going to the cinema.
What I really love, and what distinguishes it now
in a very different way than it even did ten years ago,
is it's one of the few places you can go
where you don't have access to your phone,
you're not supposed to look at your phone,
which I think is really good. - People still do.
I think anything that we do on television or streaming,
everyone's half watching the thing and half watching their phone.
So I think one of the magical things about the cinematic experience,
besides the fact it's collective, you're in a dark room,
is that people are really focused on the work you're putting out there.
That sounds kind of obnoxious as the people who create the work,
but you want people focused on what you did.
Let me ask you this.
This keeps happening, I don't want to interview.
You're such a forward-thinking person who's into the next thing
and cinema is viewed as such an antiquated thing,
so why do you, what's your-, why is there such a love for it there
considering you're such a forward-thinking person?
Well, because I don't dislike-, I don't dislike television.
It's just very different, that's all.
We make TV too, but I think cinema, it's a magical experience.
Yeah, because you're out of your own comfort zone.
- Yeah, it's special. For me, it's a lot of nostalgia.
To this day, the smell of popcorn takes me right back to being a kid,
like my mum taking me to see Ghostbusters
at the Waverley Gardens Twin Cinema, shout out to Waverley Gardens.
And that smell, it was a magical-, that very '80s movie theatre look.
You know, they always had the red carpet,
it was always red, the whole thing was red,
and you had to go down a set of stairs.
I remember that stuff like it was yesterday
and that's why I still love movie theatres,
because they just remind me of being a kid again
and having these great experiences.