This is Rummy's Corner.
Good evening boxing fans and welcome to Part 6 of the Boxing Survey Series.
This open Survey was conducted in the Classic Section of BoxingForum24.com and 24 volunteers
participated.
Each of them provided a Top 15 list for each of the traditional 8 weight classes.
Today we will be exploring the Middleweight division.
I did not personally participate in the Survey, as I did not want my opinions to influence
the final outcome.
This is the scoring system.
100 points for a 1st place vote, and so on according to these point values.
With 24 participants, the most points any individual boxer can accumulate in any given
weight class is 2,400.
Let's jump right in and take a quick look at the Top 10 results in the Middleweight
Survey.
#10 is Freddie Steele.
He received a total of 270 points, and he received mention on 19 out of 24.
This is close to the average score we have been seeing for a 10th place finish.
#9 is Mickey Walker.
319 points for Walker, but he received 6 fewer mentions than Steele appearing on just 13
out of 24.
But those 13 who did list Walker tended to hold him in high regard.
#8 is Charley Burley.
412 points for Burley and he finished on an impressive 22 out of 24 Survey lists.
Just as a quick reminder to everyone, the information at the bottom is according to
what is currently on BoxRec.
#7 is Bob Fitzsimmons.
He received 492 total points and he also appeared on 22 out of 24.
That 492 point total is the lowest we have seen to date in the Survey for a 7th place
finish.
#6 is Stanley Ketchel.
527 points for Ketchel and he also appeared on 22 out of 24.
Same thing going on here - that is the lowest point total we have seen for a 6th place finish.
#5 is Bernard Hopkins.
570 points for The Executioner and he was mentioned on 23 out of 24.
Again we have the same trend.
This is the lowest score to date for a 5th place finish.
But this trend is about to change.
At #4 we have Marvelous Marvin Hagler.
Terrific scores here!
1,550 points for Hagler, a perfect 24 out of 24, and Hagler also had three 1st Place
Votes.
Hagler is the first Middleweight member of the All 24 and the 1,000+ points club.
This is the highest score total we have seen for a 4th place finish, and it is also the
most 1st Place Votes for a 4th place finish.
More on the Marvelous One in a bit.
#3 is Sugar Ray Robinson.
Robinson just edged it out over Hagler with 1,565 points.
Sugar Ray appeared on a 23 out of 24, and he received five 1st Place Votes.
This is the highest score total to date for a 3rd place finish.
And for Sugar Ray Robinson, this is his second Top 10 finish.
Robinson of course finished 1st Place in the Welterweight survey where he received the
highest scores we have seen to date in the entire Survey.
So a commanding 1st Place finish at Welterweight, and now here an outstanding 3rd place finish
at Middleweight.
Between those two divisions, Sugar Ray accumulated nearly 4,000 points, which is mind boggling
in the context of this Survey.
#2 is Carlos Monzon.
A staggering 1,810 points for Monzon, a perfect 24 out of 24, and he also received four 1st
Place Votes.
These are extraordinary numbers here, and this is the second highest score we have seen
for a 2nd Place Finish.
And at #1 we have Harry Greb.
A terrific 1,955 points for Greb, a perfect 24 out of 24, and Grab also received exactly
half of the available 1st Place Votes with 12.
And that was the big difference that helped Greb outpace the three incredible Middleweights
who finished behind him.
So this is the entire Top 30 statistical breakdown for the Middleweight Survey.
I believe this is an excellent Middleweight result, and honestly with those Top 4 guys
- Harry Greb, Carlos Monzon, Sugar Ray Robinson, and Marvelous Marvin Hagler - those are the
Big 4 who belong at the top of this list.
Now not everyone might agree with me - but I believe with these four, you can make a
case for these four Middleweights in any order, and it would still look great to me.
Seriously, there is not another Top 4 in any weight class that is as strong as this mighty
quartet!
They are all bad-asses, and you can make a strong case for any ordering combination among
them.
But personally, if I had participated in the Survey, then Marvin Hagler would have received
another 1st Place Vote, and this would have impacted the final tallies.
Full disclosure - and I've said this before - but my old man was Hagler fan and Hagler
became my first boxing hero as a 9 year old kid.
I only really saw the tail-end of his career, but those were three incredible fights.
Objectively speaking, I think you can make a strong case for Hagler here.
But I need to say I'm almost certainly biased here, despite my best efforts to be objective.
I just don't think I can physically create an all-time middleweight list without putting
Hagler at the top.
But the reason I did not want to participate in the Survey is because I didn't want my
opinions influencing the final outcome.
So I love Hagler.
I confess to a pro-Hagler bias, but even with that bias I can absolutely respect Hagler
being ranked 4th.
It's a totally reasonable position, even if I disagree.
Now if you start ranking him lower than 4th, however, then we might have a problem.
I like Bernard Hopkins at 5th.
For me, he is definitely the next guy who belongs after the Big 4.
If anything, the final tallies here - I don't think they do Hopkins justice in the sense,
the gap between 4 and 5 seems greater than it should be, even if the Big 4 are head and
shoulders above the rest.
So I totally agree with Hopkins rounding out the Top 5, and incidentally I think he would
pose a very difficult stylistic challenge for each of the four Middleweights I'd rank
ahead of him - but that's an episode for another day.
The rest of the Top 10 looks good to me.
Ketchel, Burley, Walker - I might have Fitz a little lower.
And I might have Jake LaMotta and Holman Williams a little higher.
But honestly, there is nothing about these results that I find objectionable.
I think this is an outstanding Middleweight result.
Based on comments I'm seeing from previous divisions, I'm guessing some people might
have a problem with Greb being at the top.
I know, I know.
100 years ago, no real fight footage.
But Greb is just one of those guys, the deeper you dig the more impressive he becomes.
There is a strong case to be made for Greb, and the Survey results here reflect that.
I have absolutely no problem with Greb at the top here, and like I said, I'd have had
no problem with Robinson at the top, or Monzon, or of course, Marvelous Marvin Hagler.
So in total there were 38 boxers mentioned in the Middleweight Survey.
That's a slight tick up from Lightweight and Welter, and once again the 1,000+ points club
and the All 24 - these numbers are in line with what we have seen in all of the other
weight classes.
Harry Greb had the high score with 1,955 points, and he had the most 1st Place Votes with a
dozen.
So Harry Greb is the winner here, but not with the same type of consensus we got with
Jimmy Wilde, Eder Jofre, Willie Pep, and Sugar Ray Robinson.
Sugar Ray still has the high score to beat and the most 1st Place Votes to date, and
I'd be absolutely shocked if anyone tops those marks.
That's it for this one.
Next up will be the Light Heavyweight division.
So we are winding down.
Just two weight classes left before the All Time Survey.
Once again, a special thanks to the 24 participants who took the time and effort to create and
submit their Survey lists.
Without them this survey would not exist.
Please share your thoughts on the Middleweight results in the comment section.
Thanks for watching everyone, I hope you enjoyed, and have a wonderful night!
This is Rummy's Corner.