Welcome to The Daily Social Distancing Show.
(laughing) Thank you.
Um, some know you as an Oscar winner,
some know you as an Emmy winner.
You know, through the years, you've been given every title,
from sex symbol to rebel, uh, to political organizer.
And you've been causing
what John Lewis would call "good trouble"
for the good part of 50 years.
Fighting for climate change is deep inside your bones.
In fact, now you've moved to Washington D.C.
to basically get arrested repeatedly
to try and get more action on climate change.
I would love to know,
in all the years that you've been fighting,
have you seen any progress, or have you seen a change
that inspires you to keep on fighting?
I see change all the time.
I see, all the way back
starting in the beginning of the '70s
when I first became an activist,
um, people changing, mostly women.
I think women tend to change more than men.
Women who had been very shy,
uh, scared to talk in public, housewives,
who, when there was an emergency,
when their children were in danger,
became these fiery warriors, overcame their shyness,
and fought and won for their community.
That's the kind of change I've seen over the 60 years
that I've been an activist.
And so, I don't... I don't get cynical or-or discouraged.
I'm-I'm really encouraged by people's ability to change.
Your book is entitled What Can I Do?
And it's about climate change,
but what I found interesting about it is,
you also talk about protest,
you talk about challenging the status quo,
you talk about fighting, uh, you know,
for equality and for justice,
and what I really was intrigued by
was how you talk about the way you've seen it for so long.
You said you saw it first as a sprint,
and then you saw it as a marathon,
and now you've started to see it as more of a relay race
from generation to generation.
What exactly does that mean?
Well, what really got me to move to D.C.
were the young climate strikers--
Greta Thunberg and all the other...
There were millions of them.
It was the biggest global demonstration
in human history, I think.
Um, about a year ago, actually, is when it took place.
And I've met a lot of them since then,
and I see how...
they're carrying grief, they're mourning
about what's been lost and what they know will be lost,
even if we start doing everything right,
because of all the heat that's been baked in.
Um, and they were saying, "Look, we didn't cause this.
"We're fighting for our futures.
Where are the grown-ups? Where are the adults?"
And I realized it's kind of a reverse logic,
that they were passing a baton
to older people to join them,
and then we in turn are passing it back to young people.
I mean, I'll be dead before the problem is solved,
but, um, I want to pass it to young people.
I mean, you-you've been through it all,
from the Nixon administration tapping your calls
and from the intelligence agencies
basically trying to sabotage you and, you know,
get you on trumped-up drug charges.
People have tried to silence you for a very long time.
This is something that's not dissimilar
to what happens to some people today, is that in their protest,
you know, people try to silence them,
they try and stop them from speaking the truth
and-and speaking truth to power.
Um, you-you... you have fought in a relentless way,
but I wonder if you've learned any tips and tricks
on how to fight effectively,
in terms of advocating for change.
Hmm.
Don't get impatient.
Keep talking.
Talking about-- like, talk about the climate change.
We have to keep talking about it.
If we don't talk about it, we're not gonna care about it.
If we don't care about it, we're not gonna do anything about it.
So we have to talk about it, you know, at family dinners
with our uncle, who doesn't believe in it.
We have to listen to people, find out what they care about,
and then pitch what we want to say to them
according to what they care about.
You know, if they care about their grandchildren,
well, we want to have a future for our grandchildren.
If they care about birds, almost three billion fewer birds
in North America since 1970.
I mean, that's just, that's astonishing!
That that many birds have disappeared.
Um, or it can simply be
the extreme weather events that are--
whatever people care about, that's what you should...
focus on.
Don't write anyone off.
You know, be open, especially to people who don't agree with you.
The social scientists have studied this,
and they say-- this is really good news--
you only need three and a half percent of people to win.
And that's 11 1/2 million people in the United States.
We can do this.
You talk about how everyday people can make a difference.
I know that governments need to do something,
we know that corporations can do a lot,
but everyday people sometimes feel powerless.
You know? Someone will go like, "Okay, I don't use straws,
but it seems like there's still tons of plastic out there."
"I may not use single-use packaging,
but there's still tons of trash going out there."
Do you really think that there's something
that we as individuals can do
to change the levels of pollution in the world?
Absolutely. We can stop being individuals
and join with others,
so that the individual becomes the group.
You know, the-the powers that be,
the-the... American oligarchs, basically,
they don't want us to realize
that there's strength in numbers.
They want us to be individualists,
'cause that helps them.
'Cause we're powerless as individuals.
But if we join organizations and work with other individuals,
um, we can make the changes happen.
We can't rely on government.
We have to force government to do what's right.
That's why I keep doing Fire Drill Fridays.
It's why I wrote the book.
I want people to take the next step.
You know, for 40 years, we've... we've pleaded
and we've petitioned and we've lobbied
and we've marched and we've protested.
We've used all the levers of democracy,
and we haven't been heard, so now we have to...
civil diso-- good trouble-- civil disobedience.
NOAH: You've been arrested more than most people I can think of,
and you've become...
you've become somewhat of a hero online,
because peoples say,
"This is how you use your privilege correctly."
Have you gotten comfortable being arrested?
Like, do you just have, like... is this, like, a thing
where you go like, "Oh, just another day for me?"
It doesn't get you at all now?
Well, you know, first of all, I'm white, so...
I'm white and I'm famous and I have a hit TV series behind me,
and, uh, so I'm not gonna be treated the way you would.
Well, I mean, you're famous, so maybe you wouldn't be treated
the way, you know, some black kid on the block
would be treated.
I mean, it's... I can't pretend that my experience is the same
as it would be for a person of color.
And I've been arrested before, and it was not so good.
It was under orders of Richard Nixon,
and it was not good.
Um, I wasn't treated so well.
Um, this time, I was choosing to be arrested.
I was engaging in civil disobedience.
And so, even though you're really giving up your power,
you can't... you can't control anything anymore--
you're in the control of the police--
but you're putting your whole body
in alignment with your values, and it's so empowering.
It's like stepping into empowerment, into wholeness.
And as I would look around
and see the other people getting arrested,
I could see they all felt the same thing.
Building community, being part of a group of people
that are fighting together is joyful.
What advice would you give to the next Jane Fonda,
a young, aspiring human being
who says, "I want to fight for all the things I believe in,
"but I may be afraid, and I may not be treated well
when the police encounter me."
What advice would you give to them?
Yeah, it's the same as I said before:
don't be alone.
We're so vulnerable when we're alone.
Be part of a movement.
That's what the joy comes from,
and that's where your safety comes from--
if you're embedded in a movement.
Well, I think there are no finer words
to end an interview on Jane Fonda.
Thank you so much for taking the time.
Thank you so much for everything you've done
throughout your life, and, uh, thank you for joining us
on The Daily Social Distancing Show.
(laughs) This is the book.
I hope people get it. It's really good.
It's very useful.
It's a fantastic guide on how to get into good trouble
and, uh, fight for causes that you believe in.
So thank you very much.
I appreciate you having me back.