Hello and welcome to Stumped, your intercontinental hit of news, features,
and debate from the quirky world of cricket. I'm Alison Mitchell and I'm about to travel
back from the south of France. I've been near to beautiful fishing port of Cassis.
It's about an hour's drive from Marseille; searing cliffs, limestone and sandstone, azure water.
It's been a lovely break and it was interesting to be out of England, in fact, for the funeral
of Her Majesty the Queen. There was quite a lot of French interest over here and lots of people
wanting to ask us about it as English visitors about what we thought about at all. Anyway,
France is looking very pretty at the moment, but also looking forward to getting back to England.
Hi, Jim Maxwell for the ABC in Sydney, where would you believe it's raining. Yes, it's always raining
in Sydney, but I was away during the week at Wagga Wagga with my wife Jennifer at the winter
Australian Swimming Championships, where would you believe young Jennifer won a silver medal in the relay.
There were lots of medals going around to be fair, but she's picked one up and that'll
bring her back again next year. So I thought that piece of information was worth passing on, Charu.
Well, please do congratulate Jennifer from all of us and the entire Stumped team. Hi, this is Charu Sharma
for All India Radio back home for a change in Bangalore, where thankfully it is not raining,
so we can get on with all our golf and tennis. But I do wonder, I can't get over how India allowed
Australia to get past 209 in a T20. That's a crazy chase! We'll see more of that series. Although,
mind you, there was a compensation because it was wonderful watching late last night, the Indian
girls beating England in England with that ODI series win thanks to Harmanpreet's explosive,
fabulous, big hundred. Great to watch. And they have a finale, haven't they? One day
international at Lord's over this weekend, which is a big occasion because England's women have
not played since 2017 and it will be a repeat of that 2017 World Cup Final. But India this time,
yes Charu you're right, they have already won the series. Now, first on Stumped this week, England's
men are touring Pakistan for the first time since 2005. That's a tour that I was on back then for a
Test and ODI series. But the reason England's cricketers have stayed away from the country
for so long has been due to safety fears prompted by an attack on the Sri Lankan team bus by gunmen
in Lahore in 2009. For many years, no country would tour Pakistan. Their home matches were
played in the UAE, starving their fans of their heroes, but slowly countries started to go back,
and many individual cricketers and overseas coaches have been featuring in the Pakistan
Super League as well. England's men and women were meant to tour last year, but they
postponed that in the wake of a supposed security threat while the New Zealand team were there. So,
there's a lot of background to this long-awaited trip. So, first of all, what has it been like at
the matches? We can cross to Karachi and speak to Nick Hoult, who is covering the series as chief
cricket correspondent for British newspaper The Telegraph. Nick, thanks for joining us. You were
at the ground in Karachi for the first T20 of the series earlier in the week. Can you describe what
it was like for us, because the atmosphere sounded incredible. Well, I was very lucky actually, Ali
because I had a magnificent view. They decided to put the English media on the roof of the pavilion.
So we were sat there with the birds circling above us and a breeze blowing and I was surrounded by
guys carrying very heavy sniper rifles. So, it was a slightly bizarre view, but it gave us a chance
to sample the atmosphere because most press boxes in world cricket these days are behind glass, so
it was nice to be outside and taking it all in. It was terrific. Every ball was cheered, every run
for both teams. It quietened down towards the end when it was clear England were going to win, but
it was really special to be there. Sounds unique, as many experiences in Pakistan are.
Of course at the moment, there's serious floods, devastating floods hitting Pakistan. So, there are bigger
things for people to be thinking about right now, but there was an incredible list of dignitaries
at the ground, which I guess spoke volumes as to the significance of the start of this tour.
Absolutely. I mean cricket diplomacy is in action in this tour. The British government and the
Pakistan government work quite closely together. There are around 400,000 tourists go from the UK
to Pakistan every year. The importance of this tour goes beyond just the cricket and England just
being here after so long, it sends a sign that Pakistan is open. Hello Nick. Can you tell
us about the security measures that are in place? I imagine there's safety first all over the place. What's the story there?
Well, it's pretty intense, actually. I'm staying in the team hotel, so I get
a taste of what the players are going through. They close the roads on the route to the ground,
lining the route are soldiers, heavily armed. All the way there are guys on roof tops. There's
a helicopter circling overhead. They actually had to take down the spider cam - a camera in the
stadium because they realise that an emergency helicopter wouldn t be able to land if they
had that in place. So, it's everywhere. The players are followed around the lobby
by close protection officers. Harry Brook said yesterday 'I've even been followed to the toilet,'
and I suppose it makes you feel safe, but at the same time it probably put in their mind if
they hadn't thought of it before they could be a target. But the Pakistan Cricket Board are doing
everything they can. It's costing around US$5M to put on this sort of security. It's a lot of money,
they will make a loss on this series, but obviously they can't take any chances because
if anything happens then it's hard to see teams coming back for a very long time.
That is Nick Hoult, chief cricket correspondent of the British newspaper The Telegraph. Jim, what
about your memories of touring Pakistan because you've travelled there as well, haven't you?
Oh, a long time ago. I know Australia has been there recently, but the previous tour was 1998
when Mark Taylor made a memorable 334 not out and we did what Nick was talking about;
went up to the border from Peshawar and to the mess of the Khyber rifles for lunch and so on.
I think in those days, there wasn't quite the scare about security that there is now. So,
we were in a bus behind the players bus. Today, there'd only be the press going,
I would imagine. It sounds very suffocating for the players to be in that environment
and just as well it's a fairly short tour, but at least it is happening. That's most important.
I'm a little concerned, as it was during Australia's tour of Pakistan, about
the sanitising of the broadcast, though. I'll be interested to hear how it's handled because
a bit like India, the PCB run a rule over it all. No words are to be spoken out of order
about the state of the pitch or the state of anything else. So, I think we need a bit more
transparency when it comes to covering cricket. We're not talking about security issues, they're
talking about matters that relate to the course of the game and I don't think there's any reason
to doubt that when Australia went there a few months ago, the pitches were deader than
Julius Caesar and deliberately so, because Pakistan didn't want lose. But there we are. That's the
one side of the touring now that worries me. That we have these sanitised broadcasts - censored.
So you'll have to put up with that again, I'm sure when the real deal starts in a few days time.
Yeah, you want commentators and broadcasters be able to speak with honesty, impartiality,
and accuracy on what they're seeing. Charu, the chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board,
Ramiz Raja was on Sportsworld on the BBC World Service last weekend, and he said that hosting
India in the future is 'a must.' And he says he is openly discussing the idea with his
counterpart Sourav Ganguly. How far away do you think we are from that actually ever happening?
To answer that quickly, a distance. But I must take you back to 1999 when I last Pakistan and I must
confess that the hospitality throughout the country was just magnificent, and I had the
luxury and privilege of going to Ramiz's palatial home for a wonderful dinner and he's a very close
friend. I know he has been trying very hard internationally through the ICC and everybody else
to say that we must get India, Pakistan going. In fact, that quadrangle that he was talking about
some time back including Australia and England. It does seem to me, and I have to choose my words
carefully here, that Pakistan and Ramiz and the people in charge before Ramiz as well were always keen
to have India and other countries visit Pakistan. Of course, there was this problem that they needed
to get over in terms of security. But on the Indian side, I still do feel that the country or the
opinion makers or those in administration are not sure that they can arrive at that thaw yet. So,
it does look like from the Indian side it might take a lot longer because it's silly opening a
floodgate, isn't it? Because right now, just about everything has stopped. But if cricket opens up,
then lots of other sporting exchanges also need to happen. And for the moment, even they are
not happening, so were pretty badly stuck from the Indian side at this point in time, still.
So, another week, another T20 franchise league has been picking its players. You might remember
a couple of weeks ago on Stumped, we had former South Africa captain Graeme Smith
with us. He is the Commissioner of the new SA20 league, which is set to begin in January,
and he told us that his biggest challenge has been securing the game's star names. They had already
signed up the likes of Jos Buttler and Jason Holder. And now the inaugural auction has taken
place and Jim, it's fair to say the New Zealand all-rounder Jimmy Neesham has had a little bit
of a rollercoaster to say the least. Yes, Jimmy, you'd have to say is one and a more self-effacing
eccentric, idiosyncratic cricketers. He's got that New Zealand humour that I and everyone else I
think who watches him and sees him on social media enjoy. But, having turned down a central contract,
he missed out in the first round of the auction and then went for a fortune to the Pretoria
Capitals in the second round. So, lucks of fortune or whatever it is - the joys, the risks of being a
freelance cricketer - so he can have one for me, Jimmy. Importantly, has not ruled himself out,
he hasn't retired from international cricket by not taking a central contract, but he said that
he already had these commitments in place. It's still an interesting turn of events isn't it that
we will likely see more and more of. Charu, someone who wasn't so lucky because Neesham,
as Jim said, did get picked up for a lot of money in the end. But Temba Bavuma,
he went completely unsold. And he's South Africa's T20 captain. So, it's not great for the league is
it that their national T20 captain and the man who will lead them at the World Cup isn't involved.
It's a bad message and I wonder how not only Temba Bavuma, but a lot of other people who idolise
him will take this whole situation, saying 'if the T20 captain's not good enough for any other South
African teams, what's going on here?' However, let me quickly also mention that this is sort
of a trickle-down effect on the commercial success of the IPL. Because, as you mention,
or as Graham did that the IPL team owners are now owning various league teams and other leagues
around the world. And because they are doing reasonably well... is that the understatement of the year, the IPL now,
commercially, I think the other leagues that have become parts of or whichever owner becomes a part
of, are likely to do well because we all know Ali, Jim, that these leagues around the world,
they come in one avatar and then they die off and come on another because of all sorts of commercial
problems. With the IPL team owners now coming in and especially now there's a new avatar of SA20,
I do think there will be more stability. But I just wonder about the pressure that other nations
are still not putting on India to say 'well, we need your players to be able to increase
the standards' of their leagues, because he mentioned the Big Bash was in some trouble.
I don't know if it is or not, but we do need this kind of fair mix of players. And finally,
all I can say is that you know, I know a thing or two about auctions and they are like wild,
untamed beast. You'll never know who's gonna go for how much where. It also depends on the
chronology. Somebody comes up early and you can go for a fairly large prize. Not that Jimmy Neesham
did in any game and outcome will happen again and some people just come late, and you think
that's a really valuable player, but people have exhausted their budgets and is just one of those
crazy things that happens in auctions. Well finally on Stumped, we're always asking you,
our listeners, to get in touch with us on Twitter and give us your views on cricket. One listener,
Tim Leighton, contacted us to tell us about his role as organiser of cricket in Montenegro - a
very small European country with a population of about 600,000 people. After hearing about
his love of sport, we decided to invite him on the show to tell us a little bit more about
Montenegrin cricket. We have found him on board his boat, just off the coast. Tim, a very warm
welcome to Stumped. Tell us a bit more exactly about where you are, and your own back story.
Well, thank you for having me on the show Ali. It's a great pleasure to be here
and from this remote corner of Europe. Yes. Civilisation has arrived. We have some cricket
here from a tradition started up a sea captain called Sir William Hoste. There is another team in
Croatia which bears his name and he was also here after that in the Napoleonic era. So, I think that
we're carrying on a tradition, really. I'm very pleased to be part of it.
What about the locals? What do they think of all of this and tell us a bit more about some of your international team-mates.
Well, so the locals... So, we used to play on the local football team's astroturf and
they would come and watch us just in slight bemusement, really, that we were playing
cricket in such temperatures. I think they liked it and we do have a couple of players... we also have a
former Premier League goalkeeper - Sacha Ilic - who has represented his country,
too. And so he plays for us occasionally and we do our best to recruit, but really the model is
to do what Serbians have done next door to us. And they are they are going in coaching in schools,
and it's taken them ten years, but they've now got youngsters coming through who are much better
than us. I dread our next encounter with Serbia; last time we met them, it was a close match,
but we're all seven years older, they're all 15 years younger. That's Tim Leighton, organiser
of cricket in Montenegro. Well, if you have a similar story to Tim's, we would love to hear
it as well. Remember, you can be in touch with us on Twitter. We're @BBCWSSport and use #BBCStumped.
Well, that's all we've got time for on Stumped for this week, so my thanks to Jim Maxwell and
Charu Sharma and of course to all of you for listening and we'll see you again next week. Bye bye.