Film Courage: Why do you say you can't make the movie you want
you have to make the movie that sells?
R. Ellis Frazier, Filmmaker: yeah I tend to believe that goes all the way up the line
when I look at you look at place in Scorsese and Coppola and people like
that I think they're making the same kind of compromises in one or the other because
ultimately there's first of all it's just too many moving parts
to just make everything exactly like you want and there's too many chefs in the kitchen
there's the actors that have their ideas there's going to be the producers and the distributors
and of course the filmmakers are going to all have everybody has their own ideas and so you
have to make something as close to where you want it as possible but I doubt that there's
the perfect movie that ended up on the final cut exactly the way it was intended to have been made
it's really a it's really a question of making sure that you get the story that makes sense and
that does what it's supposed to do both creatively and financially that's keeps you working
if you can get things done and you know make whatever compromises you need to make
but still have a certain level of creative integrity and make the experience good for people
then then that's how you continue to work and I think that it's an admirable goal to make the
perfect film you know make the film that just one that we want to make that doesn't have to
have the action scene in the first 10 minutes only reason it would need the action scene in
the first 10 minutes if our story requires it if it doesn't it requires it many 20 30 it doesn't
matter so I think that we're all striving for that perfect film the way we see it in our head
and sometimes it can be even a little bit better but rarely it's always a little bit better in
your head than you than than how it comes out because it's just the nature of the creative
process the nature of the collaborative process makes it so it doesn't just all exist in your
mind's eye it has to go through a lot a lot a lot of different people's minds eyes
and other resource-based things and through the edit and the final cut and the sound
and everything else to the point where if you're lucky you can be surprised and fear
have it be a another version of that perfect film but and then it becomes made perfect in
its in its own unique way but as far as it coming out exactly the way it exists in your head I just
don't think that that's ever going to happen when you did your first film where you were
the producer did you already have a distributor working with you no he did not we did that film
with private money and we did not have a distributor and if we would have I'm sure
they would have told us to do certain things different probably put a little bit more action
in and things like that but when we had it but once we did this is what this is where you get the
the dream stuff because once you have a movie like that in the can people start to come at you like
they want to sell it and they tell you all kinds of stuff we're going to give you a four picture
deal you give us that movie and we're going to give you a three picture first look we're
going to do all this stuff we're going to get you this I have my my friends over at William Morris
they're going to sign you as a writer and they're going to do all this stuff once they get the movie
the first thing they do is do a trailer and start selling it and all that glamour you know
washes away you know because it's a there's very few films that are attached to nothing like that
film was had no distributor it was just a disk drive with a movie with Andy Garcia and Ray Liotta
and other people on it on the film and everybody wanted it and so that's what blew our heads up a
little bit to think that we were on this you know amazing thing and you learn like I said you learn
those lessons pretty quickly when they have this kind of kind of less than cool trailer
I'm like what why would they do a trail like that because all they're doing is
showing the action for the foreign buyers and so they're they're I'm like well I didn't do the
trailer like the cool trailer I saw the theatrical because and then of course they tell your film's
gonna go theatrical we're gonna use all these things with it this is gonna be great it's
the beginning of our relationship and you know sometimes that happens and sometimes it doesn't
so for your second film did you have a distributor already attached yes I did
it actually was the same distributor as the first one so so let me be nice about it but
we did and that I directed it and it was a completely different experience
I was I was kind of green as a director but I understood a lot of production side stuff and I
also understood a lot of the editing stuff because I had done a lot of editing on the first film
so it was it was a lot different but there was a distributor and the distributor had already
pre-sold it it just so happened they pre-sold it to this little company called blockbuster
the year they went out of business so that order went out and
this is part of the fall down and get up program here so so it didn't do as good as it was supposed
to do because there was it was a design for blockbuster so you know but it was a a beautiful
film and it was a good experience and certainly learned a lot and it's you know I still consider
it probably the best piece that we've done so you already saw it on the wall you pictured yourself
walking into the blockbuster and or one before the film before La linea (The Line) was part of this
blockbuster premiere series that it became the number four video in blockbuster world nationwide
and it had this thing where they had this new thing where they had they're gonna do a an
independent film and give it the same space as a studio film and so it was a program so
they had bought placed the orders for that program and then they went out of business
we delivered in October that went out this is I think in December so they canceled it but yeah you
know like I said it was still still a good movie we it gave us the opportunity to make the film
and eventually it all worked out why not just make the movie you want to make well I mean if I had
the rich uncle or if I was the rich uncle then I probably could make it and I think I would I
have a script a couple scripts that I would just want to make exactly the film the way it is but
you know it you know you have to make the decision you want to keep working and keep
and keep moving the career down the the path or do you want to you know create the art that you
want and I think that you can find a balance in that but at this point you know you have to
have something to show you have to have a reel you have to have movies that you've done you've got a
[ __ ] in certain cases you have to show numbers so you have to make the film that you're able to
make and investors tend to like that distributors tend to like that more than hey I'm going to make
the film I want to make it it doesn't matter you know if you make or lose your money we
we try to do the film as best we can and pepper in all those beautiful moments and
pepper in all that beautiful cinematography but at the end of the day we have to make the films
that people are either giving us money to make or you know that the market will bear so
you know I would very much like to do a film just the way I see it
just the way every shot I want to do it this way I want to do the push in here I want to do the side
shot here but sometimes there's always going to be compromises in that and so I think that
the key is to make the film that you're making the film you want to make if you can find that balance
inside yourself and inside the the filmmaking experience and the and the product
I think that's more a better way to try to kind of maybe find it love what you're doing
find the maybe it wasn't exactly what you saw but say find the beauty and say that's amazing
and you have those moments and some moments like well you know a little bit less but you find the
moments and you do your best to string those moments together and then still keep everybody
happy so that you can keep moving forward the the true enemies not moving forward
you have to keep making the films and you have to keep on pushing that forward put the little
pieces onto your reel put the little pieces onto experience learn the pieces of information
make those contacts then you move toward the more perfect filmmaking experience that way but that is
my opinion the more safe trajectory I don't want to call it safe but it's the more practical one to
just wait until say hey I want somebody to get how brilliant this is how brilliant this film will be
well what have you done well I've done you know a couple shorts in a student film
okay I’d rather show them a vast example
of a lot of things that we've done and they understand that we can get things done so
and we can get things done efficiently and we can follow through and pivot and be flexible and
bring things back from the brink of disaster things like that and then eventually you will
get the faith and confidence to do something that that is is that masterpiece I think
that's just one way to get to the masterpiece I'm sure some people will sit and wait and
send it out enough times and somebody will recognize it and put money into it or whatever
but for for me you just gotta take the pieces of everything even if it's not the best film you take
the pieces that are show that and you move the program forward and the name of your second film
that was supposedly going to be in blockbuster was it's called across the line the exodus of Charlie
Wright now the thing is the distributor you learn about distributors they always want to put
some kind of thing that was related to the original movie which was across the line but
the name the original name was called The Exodus of Charlie Wright so and I thought that was
the tone of the movie but they wanted to put across the line in front of it so that's
that's fine I got used to it eventually pivot do you think most people would have given up after
that experience so this was like what you said your second film you you came close to having
it in blockbusters unfortunately blockbuster pivoted out of business and most people would
have given up you said you talked about having a long tail like a body of work and not waiting
a lot of people I know did or or you know just felt folded back and kind of waited for something
to happen some people would have quit and but but a lot of people wouldn't have I mean I think that
you know getting your films uh having some sort of disappointment in film
is is just part of the business and it's just and if you really can't handle that
especially you know you know you can take a break and regroup which we kind of did a little bit you
know take a break and regroup but but if you give up after your second film then you're probably
not in the right business to be honest with you you got to keep got to keep it moving
you got to you got to really give it a certain amount of time and just nothing happening and then
you say okay well maybe this is maybe I go back to selling insurance or something but you know
you got to give it the old college try the way I look at it is this if I'm if I want to be a doctor
I can't go out if we're in 2022 I'm not gonna be a doctor in 2023. it's going to take me four years
undergrad four years med school then some other things anything that's that's that you really
that that it's meaningful and especially and there's a lot more doctors than our directors
anything that's is complicated and and unique as being a director it's not going to take two
years it's going to take 10 years 12 years and you shouldn't feel as though the some kind of failure
or some sort of disappointments aren't they're all part of your school they're all part of
you know for undergrad then you're in you've got to do it one way or the other the world doesn't
work that you know you just wake up one day and say I'm going to do this and just do it you've
got to go through the process and I think if you look at it like that if you have that perspective
that I'm on year three am I really supposed to be a big time hot shot director well you know how the
media does they'll they'll show you those people but for every one of those people they don't show
you the hundreds of thousands that didn't do that that didn't happen for so I always looked
at it like it's going to take a certain amount of time what we're doing is a very unique thing
it's very sought after there's not that many people that can do it and it's going to take a
certain amount of time so just put in the time put in the work get ready for the the hits you know
learn the lessons and then eventually you come out on if you've got the talent and
the and the temperament and the patience and the ability to to adjust then you'll
then you know you can carve something out for yourself and it'll just be to what degree you
carve it out so but I think that you can if you can get through that people will trust
you and give you a chance yeah and also there's a high degree of skepticism that someone will be
a director whereas if someone takes the proper you know steps and they're in residency and all
these different things oh this is this is so-and-so he's going to be a doctor whereas
when you introduce someone this is so-and-so and he's going to be a director it's a it's met with
a different response at least absolutely no it is because what because you know it's just like I'm a
writer a lot you know but what makes you a writer because in theory you have written I've written
10 screenplays the question is you know how many of the screenplays have been produced and you know
what makes I guess what makes a difference between a writer a professional writer and a successful
writer you know are are three very separate and unique things and so when you talk about director
you know either you're directing films or you're not you know it's it's not about prepping the film
or developing it or writing a film and you know putting together the idea to do it you have to
get on a set and say roll sound roll cameras action whatever that is and then
and you but you've got it in but you can't just stay and you know do it on your iPhone or on with
your friends and your buddies at some point you gotta you've gotta you know get yourself to the
point where you can be noticed and appreciated and someone to look at you and say hey let's
I like what you do let's let's do a little bit more of that so you know
you hear people say I'm a director I'm an actor I'm a I'm a writer and good for them you know
maybe that's what they need to complete their process and so that it makes sense for them
so but at the end of the day you know it's the market that dictates where we sit in it
and our success and so it's about understanding the balance between the business and the art
understanding team building understanding how to
put together the resources to keep yourself working and things like that will decide you
know ultimately and it's your real you know what have you done your wheel or your IMDB
and things like that that's ultimately what you'll be judged by so you know
you can talk which is good like I said don't put those people down
they say hey I'm doing this I'm doing that I'm writing I'm directing I think great
that's fantastic but you gotta actually get out there and get the work done too you must so.