-This book is a fascinating look at your career
and your own perspective on your career.
-Right.
-Early on, you directed films that were considered by many
very salacious, very crude.
-Yeah. -And you embraced bad reviews.
-Yeah, I made a career out of bad reviews.
I mean, we waited for them.
Like "Variety" said, "The most filthy, repulsive,
stupidest movie ever made."
We said, "Thank you." You know, put it in the ads.
And Rex Reed -- He always came through.
He said, "Where do these people come from?
Where do they go when the sun goes down?
Isn't there a law or something?"
-And did you feel like that drew people to your work early?
-Oh, of course it did.
The people that I wanted to come see my movie,
which didn't fit in even minority groups.
They loved to see that. -That's fantastic.
And then you sort of entered the mainstream with "Hairspray."
-Yes, definitely, definitely. That was a sneak attack.
-A sneak attack. Yeah.
And then, all of a sudden, you know, you make this
very sort of honest, authentic movie about where you came from.
And then, now it's been adapted to stage,
and it's taken on this life of its own.
Are you precious about your work or are you happy when it --
-Are you kidding? There's been 50 versions of it.
They keep paying me to write it.
I want to do the porn version, really,
which will be "Pubic Hairspray."
-"Pubic Hairspray." There you go.
Let's wait for the reviews. I feel like we could write them.
Yeah.
-Yeah.
-There is this label that has put on you
over the years of "cult director."
Do you like being called a cult director?
-Well, I don't mind it, but in Hollywood,
it's the worst thing you can ever say,
because, to them, "cult" means two smart people like it
and it lost every penny, which was true in my movies.
So, no, I never went in and said,
"I want to make a cult movie."
I always had to lie and say, "Everybody in America
is going to love this movie."
You know, and they believed it sometimes.
It was good. I failed upwards in Hollywood.
-Yes. And we're all lucky because of that.
You did a film -- And you write about this in a book.
And this really speaks to, I think, the difficulties
of getting your vision onscreen as a director.
You had a film, "Pecker." -Yeah. Yep.
-And -- -"Pecker."
-"Pecker," yes. -I thought you said "Packer."
-No, no. Trust me. -That's the porn version.
-Yeah, yeah.
My God, I can't believe "Pecker" wasn't dirty enough for you.
-No, there was a porn version. -Oh, there was?
-And it was called "Pecker," so it was so pitiful.
-So, you had a scene where you needed rats to be --
-Having sex. -Having sex.
-But the problem was that -- You know,
I know how to get them to have oral sex.
You put peanut butter on there. It always works.
-Sure, sure. Right. I mean, we all know that.
-But I wanted the missionary position.
And they wouldn't do it.
And I thought, "What do we have to put on?
Like, "Ben" or "Willard," show them rat movies or --
I don't know -- rat porn?
-Do you have, like, an animal? -There was a trainer there.
But I'm behind the set, and they weren't doing it,
so I'm killing time, talking rat-dirty, going,
"Hey, where's that rat hole?
Eat that cheese, bitch."
And, you know, trying to get them into it.
-Yeah, sure, sure.
-And then there was silence, and nobody laughed.
I thought, "What's the matter?" I walked around the other side.
It was the trainer -- his little child
he had brought to work that day.
I know.
And I look like a pervert anyway.
So, it was kind of sad. I apologized.
-I will say, whatever you did -- You know, this is true.
I'm gonna show right now -- I'm going show the audience
what it looks like.
-I haven't seen that clip. -You haven't seen it?
Well, let's take a look at the excellent work you did.
♪♪ [ Squeaking ]
-And how we actually did it -- the prop master --
He said, "Give me that."
Just took them and shook them, like that, underneath.
And the rat trainer -- we sent him home.
-There you go.
What I appreciate is -- it says, "Directed by John Waters."
You were like, "That's when I want my name to come out."
-Yeah, of course. Yeah.
And it was also flickering like there was a technical mistake.
-There's a great story about what you were like
as a kid and how you talked to your mom about school.
-Well, about school, I mean, I just tried to talk about --
When I went there, I used to come home and said,
"There's this weird little kid in my class,
and he only draws with black crayons."
And I talked about him so much.
And my mother asked the teacher, and she said, "That's your son."
So I was creating characters for myself as I was young, yeah.
-One of my favorite guests we were ever lucky enough
to have on this show was Joan Rivers.
You went on her talk show. -A lot of times.
And, you know, the only good thing about her death --
she didn't know she died.
-Yeah? -She didn't.
And I was on her show in the very beginning,
when she had it with her husband.
And it was so elaborate.
She had on Divine and I and everything.
And she was always very supportive.
I did her Home Shopping Network show, which was so pitiful.
It was one set with six folding chairs.
And she told me that I was the only person
that sold not one thing on the show.
-What did you even try to sell?
-I was pushing the video of "Desperate Living,"
my lesbian political melodrama.
Yeah. -And they sold zero.
-Not one person bought one.
-Oh, well, hopefully we'll do better with the book tonight.
-Yeah, hopefully.
-Thank you so much for being here.
What an honor. That's John Waters, everybody.