LAWSON: Well, as a point of beginning, I think it depends on what the sin is, number one.
And second, how widely it is known. If a pastor falls into immorality,
he's disqualified from pastoral ministry. And I think that as he resigns from his church,
there needs to be a full confession of his sin, that for which he is fallen into. If the pastor,
in driving to church, misses a green light and is frustrated and hits the steering wheel,
I don't think that needs to be, you know, confessed before the church.
I mean, those would be the two opposite ends of the spectrum.
And I think probably at times that there are excesses in both directions. I think
there are times that pastors give way too much detail, almost glorifying the sin in some ways,
on one end of the spectrum. And there have been times in my pastorate where I've had to get into
the pulpit the next week after I have misused my tongue and humor, for example, because my sin was
before the whole church as I would improperly use humor to have the whole church laugh at
one person from the pulpit. Then the next week I knew I needed to get back into the same setting
before the same congregation and confess that I had misused my tongue from the previous Sunday.
I don't think there's a hard and fast formula on this. And I think every person's conscience is a
factor and the conviction of the Holy Spirit, but I don't think every sin needs to be laundered in
front of the congregation. I don't think that's of any help, and I think it's a false humility quite
frankly, or an incredible spiritual immaturity to think that everything needs to be paraded.
But there are times that, I think, depending upon the sin and the setting that you do need to.
KIM: I agree with everything Dr. Lawson said. I think it's a wisdom call.
LAWSON: Yeah.
KIM: In terms of how, how much, and what. We live in a generation and time where authenticity,
transparency, these are all things and traits that are heralded. And in many ways, that's helpful,
but I think it's a wisdom call as to how much and what. If I can take it from a different angle and
perhaps add to it this way, there is, and part of that is my own upbringing as well, part of that
is what we see in our church community. There is a sort of a separation and distancing of
the pastor and the pastorate versus the lay, and the self-isolation of the pastors,
because they feel uncomfortable, or at least their concern to be able to openly share
some of the concerns and the sins that perhaps that they are struggling with.
And this is not, you know, I'm not advocating that we somehow share these things widely and openly to
all the congregation members is not what I mean by it. But I do think given where we are, and
especially in the setting in which we are training future pastors as well, their honesty about their
own sins and being able to be with people with whom they can be honest and not just be isolated
in their ministry is also very important, not only for their spiritual health but longevity as well.
I see a lot of my peers, you know, when you were slightly younger,
I think there are great aspirations about what you might want to do, and every seminarian graduates
with hopes and dreams about how the Lord might use them. And then you reach a certain point where, my
dad was in ministry four decades, my grandfather stayed in one church for thirty-nine years.
At that point your mindset is "I want to finish well," that's the goal. I want to finish the
race well, faithfully, and lift up the name of Christ Jesus in my ministry and my life.
And in order to run that race, forgive me, I probably am least qualified to speak on this,
they need a group of people with whom they can be honest about these things.
So if we're talking about honesty in pastoral ministry and sinfulness
with the congregation, that's completely a wisdom call to what degree and what. When it comes to the
need for that honesty and transparency with people, I think that's a necessary way
to sustain the marriage by God's…I mean, not marriage, but ministry by God's grace.
But in order to do that, you do need to be surrounded with people that you can be honest to.