Hi everyone, Matt here.
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Hello there, I'm Matt Abrahams.
To keep up with the learning this
summer, we're diving back into some
of our most popular episodes.
Think of this as summer school.
As part of our summer learning
series, we'll be reintroducing
an episode, and pairing it with
an assignment for you to complete.
Fasten your seatbelts, and
sharpen your pencils.
>> I always define a reputation as
the echo that precedes you into
a room, and the echo that remains
after you leave.
>> Allison Kluger's quote has stuck
with me for a long time.
I'm Matt Abrahams, and I teach
Strategic Communication at Stanford
Graduate School of Business.
Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart: The Podcast.
Thanks for joining us for part
two of our Summer Learning Series.
In part one,
we revisited an episode all about
storytelling and humor.
We heard from many of you on our
LinkedIn page about your homework,
the jokes that you learn from your
life experience.
For this episode, we're going to
talk all about reputation.
I'm joined by Jenny Luna,
our executive producer.
So Jenny, tell me,
what do you think about reputation?
>> Well, Matt,
I hear people say all the time what
others think of you is none
of your business, or that
I shouldn't care what others think.
So I struggle a little bit with
the whole reputation thing.
>> I hear you. We're so
often told that we shouldn't care
what people think, but I'm not so
sure I agree with that.
How you present yourself, and
how other people perceive you is
a critical element for
your success at work, and in life.
In one of the very first interviews
we did on this podcast,
I spoke with Allison Kluger,
a lecturer in Strategic
Communication here at Stanford GSB.
Allison focuses on how to manage
reputation, how to tell your story
and establish your brand.
Jenny, can you share with
our listeners what our homework
assignment is for this episode?
>> Yeah, so something that really
stuck with me from the reputation
episode is when Allison mentions
the book Reputation Rules by
Daniel Diermeier.
She talks about Daniel's
trust radar.
Let's play a quick clip about that
from the episode.
>> So what this trust radar says is
that there are four elements that
are really important to create
trust with people, and
to either repair your reputation,
or make sure your reputation stays
positive.
And the four axes are really
expertise, empathy, commitment,
and transparency.
>> Okay, so here's your homework
assignment, listeners.
I want you to draw your own
trust radar.
Draw a quadrant with an x and
y-axis.
Put the following words in the four
quadrants, expertise, empathy,
commitment, and transparency.
Now, think of an aspect at home or
at work where you are a leader, and
rank yourself along the axis in
which areas are you strongest, and
in which areas you can improve.
>> We are super excited to see your
radar.
Please share your findings on
LinkedIn.
We love drawings. >> Yeah, snap
a photo of your quadrant and upload
it to the post on our LinkedIn page
about this best of episode.
>> We so look forward to your
responses.
Now enjoy this episode,
Communicating Our Multiple Selves:
How to Manage Your Reputation.
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I'm thrilled to have my colleague
and fellow GSB lecturer
Allison Kluger here with me to help
better explain what actions we can
take to communicate the reputation
we want others to see us having.
Allison has an amazing background.
She served as a producer for
many TV and radio shows,
including Good Morning America and
The View, and
she is an expert on digital media.
At the GSB, she teaches
Strategic Communication, as well as
Reputation Management: Strategies
for Successful Communicators.
Allison, I can't tell you how
thrilled I am to have you
here today.
We worked hard to make this happen,
and I'm excited
to have our conversation.
I'd like to start by asking
three background questions for you.
First, how do you
define reputation?
Why should we worry about it?
And how do others come to
learn about our reputations?
>> Matt, I'm thrilled to be here.
Thank you so much.
Those are great questions to
start with.
I always define a reputation as
the echo that precedes you into
a room, and the echo that remains
after you leave.
And a great reputation is
really like currency.
So if it can do the work for
you before you even enter the room,
you're on the winning side.
So if someone says, my god,
you have to meet Matt.
He is so thorough. >> [LAUGH]
>> He's so good at scheduling
interviews.
>> [LAUGH] Nobody is saying that,
Allison, but all right.
>> He always makes you feel so
good about yourself.
By the time you show up, people
are already predisposed to one,
like you, and to listen to you.
So the other end of the echo when
you leave,
it's kind of the murmurs, right?
My god, that was a really great
presentation, or he was so funny,
or she was so intense.
Whatever it is,
it's what are they going to
murmur when you leave the room?
Now you might say, well,
how do you know?
It comes back to someone might say,
my friend saw you at this at
the speech that you gave.
And I really want to get together
to talk about business,
or, your reputation precedes you.
I heard that you really know how
to deliver a great presentation.
It does come back.
And then right in the moment,
someone might say,
can I have your business card?
Can we have lunch?
Can we have coffee?
Can I introduce you to someone?
So that's the first part about your
question.
>> Right, I'm curious to know,
really, how do we work to actually
build up that echo?
What are some of the specific
things we can do when it
comes to managing our reputation?
Is there something around mindset
that we need to think about?
>> I really believe it's about
awareness, and the good news is you
can change your reputation.
It's a very fluid process,
and there are times in our career
in our life where we
have to reevaluate who we are, and
what we're delivering to the world.
When you introduced me, you really
hit the nail on the head, because
the question about reputation is,
is what we're putting out there
being perceived the way we intend?
If there's not a matchup,
then you're kind of in trouble.
But what you can do is to be very
conscious.
It's kind of like what I say for
my online digital class, which is
be a conscientious content creator.
Well, you have to be conscious of
how you enter a room.
You have to be conscious of first
impressions.
You have to be conscious of how
present you are when you're
discussing things with somebody.
Do they feel that you
are distracted, and looking over
their shoulder to see if someone
better's coming in the room?
>> [LAUGH] >> And
you also have to be consistent,
and show up as who you are time and
time again.
So that way even on your online
reputation, if you are posting very
kind of wacky things that aren't
consistent, people don't really get
a sense of you.
And people are so quick to judge,
or create a fixed bias, or
a negative bias.
The way you can avoid that is to
let people know what you stand for
continuously, kind
of curate your values.
>> So it sounds like people need
to be very mindful and thoughtful
about what they want others to
think and perceive of them.
And really sit down and
think about in a detailed way
here's how I want people to see me,
or here's what I stand for.
And then once that's done,
what do you recommend people do?
How do you then articulate that?
Do you create some kind of
catchphrase?
Do you find certain causes to
support?
How does one demonstrate those
values and
themes that they've identified?
>> It's a great question, Matt.
I always worry about saying what do
you really do,
because you want to be as
authentically you as possible.
>> Sure.
>> And I do find that your
reputation is defined by others.
So I know how I want to be.
But if I'm not realizing that
people are getting it that way,
I want to be someone who's kind and
open minded and not judgmental, and
a really hard worker.
And so the way I will know that I'm
doing that is if I'm at work and
I get a review, and they say you're
doing this right, or if friends say
you're such a great friend because
I can tell you anything.
So it's kind of like,
how do you live your life?
And again, that word consistency is
really important.
If you need to create a new
reputation, then I think you
need to be more mindful.
Let's say you're someone who's
always late,
just a really- >> Why'd you look at
me when you said that?
>> I did not. >> [LAUGH] Okay.
>> It's a small thing, but
the buzz is like, my god,
we have to call the meeting
ten minutes earlier every time,
because she's always late.
How do you change that kind of
reputation?
You set your alarm, and you get
there ten minutes early every time.
So you do have to be very strategic
sometimes.
But for the really natural
qualities that you have, I think
you'll be hearing it through work
and friends, and responses to
whatever you're putting out there.
>> Right, I know that two key
concepts that you focus on in your
class, and we've talked about this,
in lots of situations are this
notion of trust, and the balance
between warmth and competence.
Can you tell
us more about these ideas?
You've mentioned consistency.
I'm really curious about trust and
warmth and competence.
>> Yes, trust
is a really big area in reputation.
And we use a book called
Reputation Rules by Diermeier, and
he has something that's called
the trust radar.
And I love to use this.
In fact, it's impossible for
me to read the news and
not bring in the trust radar when
something is happening,
some sort of reputation crisis.
So what this trust radar says is
that there are four
elements that are really important
to create trust with people, and
to either repair your reputation,
or make sure your
reputation stays positive.
And the four axes are really,
expertise, empathy, commitment, and
transparency.
I'm sure you've heard of this.
I'm sure a lot of business students
have heard of the Tylenol episode
way back in the 1980s I think,
when- >> Yeah, the tainted Tylenol.
>> The tainted,
I love the alliteration.
>> [LAUGH] >> The tampered tainted
Tylenol, so.
>> That's terrific.
>> Someone was putting cyanide
in some Tylenol caplets, and
there were deaths.
And the company, Tylenol's company,
they could have just said,
it's a serial killer,
it's not our fault.
But they did the absolute opposite.
They took every bottle off
the shelves.
They said your safety is the most
important thing.
Return anything you have,
we'll pay you back your money.
And instead of a moment
of disaster, they made it a moment
of triumph, where they developed
new tamper free packaging.
So what they showed was,
first of all,
they were very transparent.
They said we don't know what's
going on, but
we're going to protect you.
They were very committed.
They put their top CEO to come and
give the message out.
The expertise was in developing new
packaging, and they were
committed to solving this problem.
So on the trust radar,
they're hitting everything.
>> Right.
>> Sometimes you see someone who
doesn't respond as well to
an emergency, they're kind of like,
no comment, no comment.
>> Right.
>> That's already breaking
the number one rule of trust.
>> Right. >> Just frustrates
people. >> Right.
>> So trust is a really big issue,
because if I come to you, and
I'm expecting something, and
you don't deliver it, I'm going to
just reevaluate you in the moment.
>> Right. >> Right, and
then the warmth and competence,
that plays into reputation, but
also plays into executive presence.
Which, I believe that if you're all
data, and
you're all kind of knowledge, but
without any warmth to balance it,
you can come off as arrogant,
or a know-it-all, or
a little poindexter, as we used to
say that when we were younger.
>> [LAUGH] >> Right, and that's not
a really great way to be, and
also very dry.
If you're all warmth,
then people think,
that person's really fluffy,
they have no substance.
So I really believe the superpower
is to match warmth and competence,
because people want to like you,
and people want to trust you.
And the more likeable you are,
the more amiable, the more you're
kind of aware of how you're coming
off to people, the more people
respond to you in a positive way.
>> So as we now more and
more are struggling with
managing reputations,
not just in the physical world,
but in the virtual world,
as well with our presence and
all these social media tools.
I look at my teenage children, and
I see how many different
instances of themselves there are.
We were so lucky growing up.
We only had to be who we
were in front of people [LAUGH].
>> We really were, and
that was hard enough.
>> It was hard.
>> Yeah. >> And so I'm curious, do
you have any less bits of advice or
guidance that you provide?
>> I do. I try to teach this to
my kids.
We have kids similar ages.
The first thing I say is it's not
what happens, it's how you choose
to deal with it,
because things are going to happen.
But it's kind of like, it can be
the worst moment of your life, or
it can be a moment where you
triumph, like I said.
Or you turn it around, or
you accept it, or
you do something of value.
So don't let what happens define
you, let how you choose to
deal with it define you.
>> So I end each one
of these with three questions.
I've been dying to hear your
answers to these three questions.
So before we end,
let me ask the first here.
If you were to capture the best
communication advice you've ever
received as a five to seven word
presentation slide title,
what would that be?
>> I would say be comfortable with
being uncomfortable.
There's no way we're all going to
be happy and comfortable 24 hours
a day, and to have that expectation
is really selling yourself short.
>> So my second question, and this
I'm also really fascinated to hear
your answer, who is a communicator
that you admire and why?
You have had such variety of
people you've interacted with.
I'm curious to know,
who do you admire?
>> Well, can I give two?
>> For you, Allison, two,
nobody else, but for you.
>> Thank you so much.
>> Well, my first choice is Tyra
Banks, who I teach a course with.
>> Right. >> Because she is someone
who is very underestimated.
She started as a supermodel.
She's a brilliant businesswoman.
She's a marketing genius.
But what I really love about her,
and what I've learned about her in
the last kind of three and
a half years of working with her,
is that she's very real.
And she really has values
that she stands up for, and
it kind of covers everything
whenever she's talking to you.
She's not afraid to be vulnerable.
She's not afraid to uncover
the warts that are beneath someone
who has a standard of beauty.
And she's also very free in sharing
her struggles, and
how you storytell is
really important as a communicator.
So that's a real life thing.
And then the other person who I
just admire so
much is Michelle Obama.
When I heard her speech when she
was campaigning for Hillary,
I think I got chills.
I don't think I've ever seen
a better communicated presentation
in my entire life.
>> That's saying something too.
>> It is.
She's warm, she's real,
she's strong, she's funny,
she's uncompromising, and
she's inclusive.
And she's not at all fabricated, it
comes from her heart and her soul,
and you really feel her spirit.
To me,
a great communicator's someone
who's authentically themselves and
not afraid to show it, and aware of
their audience, and aware of how
they want to change the world.
>> Both of those
women are phenomenal communicators.
And I think they represent very
well the concepts you've talked
about in terms of building trust,
being authentic,
warm, and also competent.
So my final question for you is,
what are the first three
ingredients that go into
a successful communication recipe?
>> Well, you're going to laugh,
because this
is something you teach,
but I truly believe it, it's aim.
>> Yeah. >> It's audience, intent,
and message.
I don't care whether you're
going to be in
a one-on-one meeting, or
a presentation, or a job interview,
or wooing somebody [LAUGH],
you need to know your audience.
>> Right. >> You have to understand
where they're coming from, and
it's really putting yourself in
someone else's shoes initially.
And then what is
the intent of this communication
you're having with them?
Do you want to entertain?
Do you want to inform?
Do you want to convince, persuade,
fundraise?
Whatever it is, if you're not
certain on your intent,
your message will be confusing.
And then finally,
how do you message?
Messaging clearly and succinctly,
and repeating your message, and
having it as a strong opening and
a strong closing, so that's
the last thing they remember.
So aim, audience, intent, and
message.
>> Your aim has clearly hit
the target today, Allison.
I have thoroughly enjoyed speaking
with you.
Your reputation preceded you, and
you've only confirmed it.
And I love this notion of
reputation being the echo that
comes before and after.
And I hope our conversation today
will echo for
everybody who's listened.
It certainly will echo for me.
Thank you so much.
>> Thank you so much, Matt.
>> Thanks again for
listening to our second
Summer Learning Series episode.
Allison shares so
many useful tips and tricks to help
us manage our reputation.
Now it's your turn.
We look forward to seeing your
homework assignment posted to our
LinkedIn page.
Thanks, and happy learning.
This has been another episode of
our Think Fast,
Talk Smart Summer Learning Series.
Please check out all three
episodes in this series.
Think Fast, Talk Smart: The Podcast
is a production of Stanford
Graduate School of Business.
This episode was produced by
Podium Podcast Company, Jenny Luna,
and me, Matt Abrahams.
Find more resources, follow and
join our conversation on LinkedIn
by searching Think Fast,
Talk Smart.
And please download and follow
wherever you get your podcasts.
And be sure to drop us a review
on Spotify or Apple Podcast.
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