here we are again of course with no
audience for the reasons we all known is
very strange and rather frightening
times for all of us and instead of our
usual five panelists we have four in
order to have suitable social distancing
good evening
I'm a local GP and unfortunately I've
been having to self isolate for the past
week and a half I've not been able to
get remote access to be able to work
from home
there's been no testing for NHS staff
and my colleagues on the front line have
had to go and buy their own scrubs and I
equipment from DIY stores because the
personal protective equipment has not
been adequate I would have thought that
these were problems that could have been
anticipated and dealt with in advance I
would like to know what specific
problems people expect the NHS to have
in the next few weeks and months and
what they think can be done in advance
to sort them out
so Richard there's two aspects so this
isn't a have we got to this point and
was enough done to stop us getting to
this point and is there anything coming
down the track that we need to be
preparing for now well first of all I am
receive 2030 messages a day from
frontline NHS workers across the country
telling stories very similar to what
Adam was just telling us and honestly
it's sorry to say this but it's a
national scandal
we shouldn't be in this position we knew
in the last week of January that this
was coming the message from China was
absolutely clear that a new virus with
pandemic potential was hitting cities
people were being admitted to hospital
admitted to intensive care units and
dying and the mortality was growing
we knew that 11 weeks ago and then we
wasted February when we could have acted
time when we could have ramped up
testing time when we could have got
personal protective equipment ready and
disseminated we didn't do it
I'm hearing that not just personal
protective equipment is not available
it's the wrong kind of personal
protective equipment what we have isn't
even w-h-o standard we're putting our
health workers who we've just all
clapped here in the front lines without
the armor they need to defend themselves
they're wearing surgical masks which are
not w-h-o standard they're wearing thin
plastic aprons which are not standard
and they're wearing rubber gloves which
only cover their wrists exposing their
arms to danger jeopardy that is nothing
short of a national scandal how could we
allow this to happen the hypocrisy of
clapping NHS workers and yet the
government not supporting them to go
into that front line is tragic and it
was preventable I'm sorry to say but it
was preventable
we had the secular state for health on
the program last week and I questioned
him pretty closely about supply of
equipment and and Matt Hancock was
saying innumerable numbers of lawyers
were going to be out over the weekend so
I'll say we were on Thursday said by
Sunday all the hospitals as far as he
could say at that point all the
hospitals will have sufficient personal
protective equipment here we are a week
on and no they don't and you've heard
what Richard has to say well this is a
big challenge but we are ramping up
supply very rapidly and I'm sorry to
hear there's a problem at Shrewsbury
Hospital but you can't be surprised by
what you heard because we've all been
hearing it well I see I hear that myself
and I'm the cabinet's are responsible
for local government to look after
social care so I hear it from social
care providers as well because we need
to get this equipment not just to
hospitals but to care homes to
pharmacists to GPS to people who work in
homeless shelters many different
important settings but we are now
getting very significant quantities tens
of millions of items of equipment from
gloves to face masks and to other items
@pp
are now flowing through this has become
for us a military operation you've seen
some of the pictures of the Armed Forces
delivering this to hospitals supplies
are rich the shakiest head well that's
just it supplies are flowing through to
hospital tell us tonight tell us tonight
because people watching at home and um
there will be GPS or working in the
healthcare system Social Care when do
you think people who need it in the
health system will have the correct and
sufficient personal protective equipment
when will that be
well I can't give you an exact time what
I do know is that you don't know what I
what I do know is that in the last 48
hours
for example 25 million packs of gloves
have been delivered 15 million face
masks almost 2 million items of eye
protection so these are very large
quantities sorry
we probably not much more than office
but we are as I know you you think what
you're saying is true I know you believe
it but it's simply not true I mean these
are the messages that I've had today the
lack of clear guidance and testing is
called ship causing huge anxiety totally
inadequate PPE being sent like lambs to
the slaughter
inadequate PPE no scrubs no testing
equipment sleepwalking into this totally
unequipped and unprepared when we had
the luxury of two months to prepare that
other countries didn't that's why it's a
national scandal we need to get much
more equipment out there that is
happening primarily now PPE is a
logistical question we've got very large
stocks we need to get it out to the
frontline on testing we're also
increasing the amount of testing that's
available again we need to go further
because this is all about testing one
day last week I think we reached 8,000
tests were averaging somewhat below that
we want to get up to 10,000 then 25,000
ultimately 250,000 as a huge effort to
be done there and then on the antibody
test which is the other type of tests
for people who've already had it there
we've ordered 3.5 million of those tests
where we're testing the test yes ensure
that it's reliable and clearly as the
chief medical officer said that's very
important there's nothing worse than an
unreliable
test but if we can prove that that is
reliable then we have millions of those
flowing and within weeks they should be
within the system well let's just stick
to the the personal protective equipment
from them because that's what Adam was
asking about Humphrey what's your view
well look firstly I think one has to say
to Adam again a huge thank you for
everything that he and the hundreds and
thousands of GPS who are in many
situations right in the front line of
what's going on here and I've got good
friends who are her GPS who are doing
tests of patience and checking patience
in the car parks their surgeries because
it's not safe to bring them inside who
are working double triple and quadruple
shifts sometimes so huge thank you to
what's going on in that regard I have to
say I have a lot of sympathy with the
views that Richard expressed which it's
hard to understand why we got caught as
short as we did in this crisis why we
didn't have the foresight to understand
more and to take the steps we could have
stake taken with equipment with tests
and many other aspects of what we need
to be ready for this now I'm not talking
about long-range planning over two or
three years I'm saying when we saw it
happening in China and then in Italy
which was so close to home I've got very
good friends in in Italy with whom I've
been on the phone since late January
early February it was very clear what
was happening I think we've really got a
take I think the government has to
really take away the lessons you know
from that of course that doesn't help
now now it's all about getting stuff to
the front line and that's a logistics
and business problem and I know a little
bit about those sorts of things that's
about making sure that you have so much
focus on managing the supplies and flows
of product and I really hope that the
government's getting the best help it
can there because that absolutely is a
solvable problem if there are 30 million
pairs of gloves or hammer in it is in
the country they absolutely should and
can be with people in the front line
let's get that done let me read you
another tweet here from Christopher Luke
who says I'm a psychiatric nurse working
on an acute mental health ward myself
and many of my colleagues feel our
patients and the staff have been all but
forgotten about we have very little in
the way of
PPE so personal protective equipment and
mental health hospitals across the
country are not equipped for something
like kovat 19
there's been no coverage of how mental
health hospitals are coping in these
circumstances what provisions are being
made for staff and patients in
psychiatric hospitals taking into
consideration the level of risk we work
with aside from the risk of catching a
Ovid 19 absolutely high I mean I we ask
people to we ask people to do everything
to to look after us that are most
vulnerable we applaud them we love them
we love their self-sacrifice but we
don't seem to be able to provide the
most basic protection and of course I
mean my local authority I know got 300
masks gloves and and and and and and and
wipes but just 300 and they have to work
out who's going to get them and who
wasn't going to get them and again going
back to the social care workers the ones
on zero has contracts the ones going to
the most vulnerable how many of them can
actually have the most basic masks and
of courses as you were saying actually
that's not a w-h-o standard anyway you
know what happens and the worry is that
that these very people not only might
catch it themselves but also may
themselves be spreaders which of course
is the last thing they want to be you
know people going into A&E and working
in A&E or cleaners working in A&E the
last thing they want to do is be part of
the problem they want to be part of the
solution and if we're not able to
provide those basic things then clearly
we have a big problem but actually I
think that it is about testing I mean
again the head of the whao said this is
all about test test test and whilst the
government may have 3.5 million tests to
find out if we've had it we should have
had those sorts of numbers surely for
tests as to whether or not people
actually have it at the moment so that
we can know whether or not they ought to
be working in a NE or whether they
should be of whether they are spreading
it how can we possibly work out who's
catching it and who we might have given
it to if we don't know that we've had it
ourselves there's so many people who've
not even asked to call one one one but
just to look up on
what the symptoms are and then self
isolate so it there's a country at the
moment we don't seem to have any idea
really apart from the deaths so how many
people even have the disease which does
make it really difficult to manage I
think I think it's a very good point I
mean we saw the research that came out
from Oxford saying half the country may
have it and we've got others saying is
it ten thousand official tests or is it
200 thousand and and you know as a
statistician earlier in my life I would
have thought we could have worked out at
least some tests and the country they
really give us at least and a guide to
what the penetration rate of the viruses
and that would have been enormous ly
helpful when we knew this was coming
late January early February the standard
public health approach to an epidemic is
you yes
test test test and then in an in an
infectious outbreak you isolate you
quarantine and you contact race you
chased out every single contact and test
that person to to see if you can
extinguish stop the lines of
transmission and that's the way you stop
the outbreak we didn't do that isn't the
I've got the most fundamental isn't the
arm for example contact tracing and
actually public health England did a
fantastic to begin we're doing that to
begin with at that stage in the virus
well we were acting upon expert medical
advice and I appreciate their there can
be difference of opinion between medics
and scientists and nothing is it's
clear-cut certainly not in a fast
developing situation like this but we
are guided by them and the contact
tracing that was done for those people
for example coming from China and other
parts of the world in the earlier stages
appears to have been quite successful
actually in this country and is held up
well by international standards not the
epidemic though has it the strategy we
ended up following was that we wanted to
get 60% of the population infected
because we made the judgment no that's
what we thought it was a modern vision
policy that the government's always had
and then
chief medical officer and our chief
scientific adviser has been to save as
many people's lives very 10 days ago
that message changed 10 days ago in the
early part of the epidemic it was not
the case that the message was protect
the NHS and save lives
the message was we're going to manage an
epidemic in the population get to 60%
get to herd immunity but there are many
many examples of people on the record
from the chief scientific advisor to
statisticians and modelers as part of
the part of Sage advising the government
saying that that was the objective and
then you stopped it when you realize
that the NHS couldn't cope with the
intensity of the government's policy
today is very clear and that's that we
need to all play our part by staying at
home that's the best way to protect the
NHS and that's the way that within all
of our power we can help to save life I
mean I accept it's government policy now
but don't you agree with me that it's
ironic as a country we're the country
that invented the test but we seem to be
the country without it and everybody
else seems to be able to test and yet
Britain is testing so little I don't
think that's fair I mean there are
countries that have tested more than we
have but the testing program that we
have is broadly similar to a number of
other major can I just quote Germany is
conducting it's just increased the
number of tests actually because we've
heard a lot about how it's it's not
there's just a supply probably you know
getting enough tests which which sounds
absolutely plausible Germany is somehow
meter seems to be circumventing that
supply problem is now increased its
number of tests to five hundred thousand
a week
the UK's tested ninety thousand overall
so how is Germany getting past a supply
problem and we're not well what we're
trying to do is to ramp up production as
quickly as we possibly can
I mean I think everyone can understand
that the NHS the Department for Health
the industry is working as hard as it
possibly can people are working around
the clock to do this nobody is going
slow on this no one suggests those in
many tests as possible and I think there
is reason to be that the testing program
will be able to step up quite
significantly
in the next week or so you've seen some
positive to positive direction on that
and then the potential at least of the
antibody test and the millions of those
that are available if it can be proven
to be a reliable test could be a
game-changing arrogance
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you