Geoff: If roe V. Wade is struck
down as a leaked draft memo from
the U.S. Supreme court suggests
it could be, it'll have a major
impact in states across the
country that have already
signaled their intention to
restrict or ban abortion.
Younger women, those who are
low-income and women of color
will be the most affected.
As you can imagine,
anti-abortion and abortion
rights advocates see the
outcomes of doing away with roe
differently.
Joining us to share their views
tonight are Samuel Rodriguez, an
evangelical pastor who is also
the president of the national
hispanic Christian leadership
conference.
And Michele Goodwin, law
professor at the university of
California Irvine and the author
of "Policing the womb: Invisible
women and the criminalization of
motherhood."
Welcome to the both of you.
In the conservative states that
have already limited access to
abortion, surveys and studies
have shown its black and Latina
women and low income women who
already face limited access to
health care who will bear the
brunt of it.
Given that, what is your
assessment of Alito's draft
opinion?
Michelle: You are right, it is
black and brown women and people
who are economically vulnerable
who will suffer the grave
consequences of what potentially
could come from the supreme
court, but it's also people who
experienced rape and incest,
that type of sexual violence,
who will also suffer because
bans such as those in Texas and
the ban at issue in this case
provides no exception for girls
who have been raped by uncles,
fathers, brothers, and women who
have been raped by strangers or
people that they know.
It is a glaring omission that we
see coming from this particular
draft, given that it is a new
articulation we are seeing in
abortion bans.
Geoff: What about that?
Many of the states that have
these bans have no exception for
rape or insist survivors.
There are even dispassionate
voices in this debate who say
that that in particular is
cruel, degrading, inhumane.
Sam: The overturning of roe V.
Wade does not, does not ban
abortion in any of the 50 states
or any of the U.S. Territories,
it does not.
It brings the issue back to
local states.
As it pertains to rape and
insist, which an institute which
is not a conservative think
tank, and the CDC, 1%.
Every case is horrific and
tragic, 1% rape, half of 1%
insist.
These cases I would agree must
be considered by some of the
most conservative states,
placing restrictions.
At the end of the day, T his
issue, I am a pro-lifer.
I believe in the sacredness of
life, however I don't believe
abortion will be made illegal in
America.
I do believe the issue has to do
with what happens after the
first trimester.
The vast majority of Americans
are in favor of keeping abortion
legal in the first 12 to 15
weeks maximum, 50% opposed it
after the 15 weeks.
What we are experiencing is the
egregious malfeasance of
legislative bodies in
California, New York, Virginia
and other states who went to the
extreme, hence bringing about
the outcome that we consider now
to be inevitable.
Geoff: Michelle, I'd like to ask
if you want to respond, but
previously you said abortion
bans represent more than
isolated state law making or
states rights, they represent an
attack on the fundamental
principles of liberty, freedom
and autonomy.
In what ways?
Michelle: They bear upon
fundamental notions of freedom.
Let's keep in mind that people
who were kidnapped and sexually
exploited and brought to these
lands were forced into coerced
reproduction.
We must understand that coerced
reproduction, coerced
sterilization, coerced now after
abortion bans, all of this is
part of a lengthy arc in
American history that has
disproportionately affected the
most vulnerable people in our
society, the most vulnerable
women in society.
It's more than ironic that
before the U.S. Supreme court,
a law coming out of Mississippi,
a state in which there are
horrific legacies of slavery, of
Jim crow, of denying people the
right to the ballot, a state in
which it was famously
talk about a woman being beaten
before she had to vote, where
black people had to guess how
many jellybeans were in a jar in
order to be able to vote.
So when in this draft opinion
justice Alito says just go out
and vote, we must keep in mind
those legacies and histories
which continue to prevail in
states that enact and act upon
voter suppression and
gerrymandering.
Geoff: Sam, to that point, as
you describe yourself as being
pro-life from womb to tomb,
there is a pattern that so many
of these conservative states now
that are poised to require women
to carry pregnancies to term,
many of these same states invest
the least in the health and
economic security of expectant
mothers and children once they
are born.
How do you explain that paradox?
Sam: I wholeheartedly agree, the
restrictive states regarding
abortions must likewise provide
health care, child care.
It can't just be rhetorical or
articulation of a pro-life
agenda limited to the baby in
the womb.
There is unfortunately a vestige
of hypocrisy in some legislative
initiatives.
These states that are
restricting, placing guardrails
on abortion, and I do agree with
many of the guardrails, a
pro-lifer from the moment of
conception, however the vast
majority of Americans agree
abortion should be kept legal
for the first trimester, maximum
15 weeks.
If you are going to put
guardrails and bring this
abortion debate issue into the
confines of a logical,
reasonable, common sense
worldview, make sure you provide
the necessary infrastructure, be
it medical, childcare, and even
providing adoption services.
Here is a moment of
transparency.
Evangelicals are pro-lifers, but
if all we do is preach pro-life
and are not providing adoption
alternatives, adoption services,
if we are not addressing the
financial and educational needs
of the communities, then I do
believe there is a bit of
hypocrisy and lack of a viable
continuing.
I am the first to confess that.
This abortion debate, it's
difficult.
We should begin with empathy.
Empathy for the women who have
this very critical decision to
make, and empathy for those that
believe in the sanctity of life.
Geoff: I want to shift our focus
quickly to the potential legal
ramifications.
President Biden for two days
straight has made the case that
this Alito draft, if the court
moves forward with it, could
call into question number of
other issues that are steeped in
the same legal foundation about
privacy matters.
Pres. Biden: What happens if you
have, a state changes the law,
saying that children who are
lgbtq can't be in classrooms
with other children?
Is that legit under the weight
the decision is -- the way the
decision is written?
What are the next things that
are going to be attacked?
Geoff: How could protections
grounded in a constitutional
right to privacy be vulnerable
to the same legal argument
justice Alito made in that draft
opinion where he said they are
not deeply rooted in the
nation's history and tradition?
Michelle: That includes
contraception, it includes
interracial marriage, it
includes same-sex marriage, it
includes same-sex adoption, it
includes many of the areas in
which Americans have come to
find freedom that was deserved
through the constitution.
I should also say that at the
backdrop of all of this we have
to pay attention to science and
health care.
The U.S. Leads the developed
world in maternal mortality.
Women are 14 times more likely
to die by carrying a pregnancy
to term in the U.S. Than by
having an abortion.
That is an aborted aspect we
should not miss.
-- An important aspect we should
not miss.
Sam: President Biden's
statement, I can best describe
it as horrific.
Justice Alito's decision was
explicit, no other case or
relive an issue before the court
has any -- or relevant issue
before the court has anything to
do with this, period.
It is a strawman's argument.
Geoff: Samuel Rodriguez and
Michelle Goodwin, thanks.
Michelle: Thank you.