>> Thanks so much for coming. I'm here to introduce David Chang, as you
know, the chef of Momofuku, Ssam Bar, Ko, Bakery and Milk Bar.
And after the talk, we'll do a little Q and A.
And then, up in Hemispheres -- if you were lucky enough to get a book -- David will be
signing books. All right? Thanks so much for coming.
Here's David Chang.
>> [Clapping]
David Chang: Thanks. Good morning everyone. Very strange. Google last week, San Francisco.
Google, New York. And I never thought, again, cooking would
lead me to both Google campuses. [laughter] Very strange. And yeah, I got into
cooking. And how I got here is very, very strange and
surreal. I started to cook, because I did very poorly
in college, because I spent most of my time with doing extracurricular activities, and
not enough time in the classroom, which is why Google would never, ever hire me. [laughter]
And it was a real struggle to figure out what I wanted to do after college, and cooking
was one of the few things that I knew I enjoyed. And it was one profession that my father -- I
could have chosen to be a garbage man, he would have been more pleased with the decision
I made. [laughter] Because he spent his entire life -- he immigrated
to this country, and he spent his entire life working 30 years in the restaurant industry
so I would never work in the restaurant industry. And it's ironic.
And you know, he sent me to the best schools he could and all that stuff -- and I still
wound up being a cook. And I wanted to see how far I could take it.
That was it. It was one time -- I mean, I've had a lot
of discussions recently about like, Is there anything pure?
Is there anything honest in terms of a craft anymore?
And, at that time, it was like '99. You know, it was either dot com or banking
or whatnot. And I just felt that cooking was one of the
few things that I thought was honest -- that you could apply yourself, and you could get
better every day. And it was remarkable, because you could use
your hands. You could sort of act like a total buffoon,
but still -- there's this total chaos -- but it's under this umbrella of this sort of French
system of a brigade. And I don't know.
I felt like I found my call and that I could do this.
And then, you know, I was never the best cook in the kitchen.
I worked for some great chefs -- for Jean George, Tom Colicchio, Daniel Bleu, Das Caramelini.
And spent some time in Tokyo. But I got out of the game.
And I say the "game" -- I say "fine dining game" -- because we normally associate great
food with fine dining. And when I started cooking -- and it wasn't.
I can't say it's 20 years. It was like ten years ago, you know, food.
You had the Food Network, but 'food' and 'cooking' wasn't cool.
Like, if any of you guys are thinking about career-changing and going into cooking school,
like think twice. [laughter] Because it's a hard, hard business. It's not
glamorous. And, you know, TV has made it seem much more
cooler than it actually is. So, you know, going back, I don't know if
I'd actually be cooking in this world -- that is like, today's like food world, because
it's just getting crazier and crazier. And I've had to, you know, learn to deal with
it. I got into cooking so I wouldn't have to speak
in front of people. [laughter] And here I am, speaking in front of all these
people, and I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about. [laughter]
So I've always sort of been a weirdly competitive person.
I think it has to do, again, with golf -- and this was before it was super-cool to play
golf. And I had the typical Asian father who was
like, trying to make me, you know, pro. And then, I realized that -- I'll never forget,
I was trying to qualify for this tournament, and I played -- all I did was play golf 365
days a year. I was trying to qualify for this tournament
in Houston, and I was eleven. Tiger Woods was already on the brochure of
the event. It was called the 'Big I' in Houston.
And he had already won it two years in a row. And that's when I knew -- I was like, "Yeah,
this guy's a lot better than I will ever be, so."
I think it slowly coincided with me just burning out on golf.
But, you know, there's something interesting between golf and cooking -- at least for me
-- because, when you're playing golf -- and I hate golf now -- is that, it's against you.
It's just you and the golf course. And the only competition is the scoreboard
and your competitors. So, I am always measuring myself against people.
I wish I had that sort of competitive drive, you know, during school.
That would have been great. But, in cooking, you sort of see who is the
best cook in the kitchen. This guy's a sous chef, and he got there from
this point and this point. And, you know, I was very quick to realize
that I was not naturally gifted as a cook, which was one of the things I loved about
cooking. You don't have to be a super-star to become
a good cook or a great chef. You just have to apply yourself.
You have to be fully committed. And when I sort of learned that -- I was learning
this, and I had the great mentors. Craft was very, very important to me.
Because, when Craft opened up, we had Jonathan Benno, Mark Kinura, Octor Nuag, James Tracy.
All these guys -- I mean people that will never make it in the press.
Like, I have a friend, Mac Kern. He's a chef in Madrid in his own restaurant.
Everyone that opened up that restaurant is the chef at their own restaurant now, which
is very rare. And they all took me under their wing and
beat the crap out of me. And that's how you learn.
And I learned quickly too that these guys were better than me.
So every kitchen I ever went to, I was always comparing myself to the best talent in the
kitchen. And I would be like, "Well, there's no way
I'm going to be better than this person." It's a really weird way of looking at things.
But I'd learn as much as I could. And, you know, someone asked me -- I was like,
"What should I talk about? I have no idea."
He said like, "What about opening up the restaurant -- the first restaurant?"
Well, I had just got back from Japan, I think. Part of the reason I came back from Japan
was, my mom was battling cancer. And I was having a hard time working at Cafe
Bleu, and working for Andrew Carmellini, who's now the chef at Locanda Verde, and who is
probably one of the best chefs in America and supremely, supremely talented.
I was also just -- working in that kitchen, I was like, "There's no way I'm going to be
as good as Andrew. Why am I cooking in fine dining?
Why am I on the Upper East Side cooking for, you know, the audience that I could care less
about?" I care about the food, so I want to have the
challenge of fine dining. I want to have the pressure of fine dining.
But why does this have to be in the environment of fine dining?
Something I didn't really put together till, just about now, so.
I left, and all these things started to happen, right?
Friends that passed away. I was just in this weird spot, where I was
just like, "I should be working at a new restaurant." And 2004 was one of the greatest years in
New York City culinary history. You had Per Se open up, Mas opened up.
Little bit later, you had Crew and Blue Hill Stone Barns.
All tremendous restaurants. Hearth opened up.
So it was a strange time for someone like myself, who had been cooking four-and-a-half
-- almost five -- years to be like, "Yeah, I'm going to open up a Noodle Bar."
And everybody knew that I was crazy about noodles.
And I wanted to make ramen, you know. I had a plan to go to Tokyo and learn how
to make ramen. But instead, I learned how to make all sorts
of different things. And that plan sort of fell flat on its face,
but it was a blessing in disguise. So the reason I opened up the noodle bar was,
I just needed to prove to myself that I could do -- I could open up a restaurant.
At the time, I was just like -- it was a challenge. It was something that I could sort of -- if
I could open up a 600 square foot spot on First Avenue on almost no budget, like $130,000
-- that was my only goal. The reason there is no -- there's a minimalist,
and everything is plywood is not because we were trying to be artistic.
We had no money. [laughter] And there was other reasons why.
It was about a test to myself. And that was the first and only goal I ever
had for Momofuku, which is again why I pinch myself every day for everything that's ever
happened. Which is why I'm so hard on myself and our
crew, because I feel very blessed to be in the position that we're in.
So that restaurant opened up, and we failed. And we continue to fail.
And those are two of the things that became cornerstones of our restaurant -- at least
sort of our mantra. It's like, "You know, if you're going to mess
up, mess up big. Or just fuck up, but own up to it."
And number two was, you know, be accountable for your actions.
No excuses, because no one's going to care. No one cares if we're going to go out of business.
So, you know, there were a lot of things going on, and we were going to go out of business
after six months/seven months. So again, right place, right time.
We're learning how to run a business. I had a terrible business plan.
I didn't know how to run a business. I didn't know how to run the cash register.
You know, the only one person that wanted to work with me was Joaquin Baca, because
all my friends at the time were working at these restaurants that were opening up.
So I felt very slighted. And things started to change.
One thing happened, and awards started happening. We became busier and busier.
And the food really took a change right around springtime when the market came around, the
green market. And I think it tied in with the size of the
space, which is what I'm trying to get back into the mode of thinking and how we do things
at the restaurant, creatively speaking. And again, it's been a progression of accidents.
And this is an accident. I didn't plan to have this sort of philosophy
of how we create something. But the first noodle bar, which is now Ko.
And even Ko has its limitations. It's 600 square feet.
It's the size of a one-car garage. Nobody in their right mind would open up a
restaurant in 600 square feet. I don't know what the hell I was thinking.
But that's one of the beautiful things when you're young and dumb.
You don't know. And I told myself, "Well, if I go out of business,
I have the rest of my life to get out of bankruptcy. I don't have a kid to feed.
I don't have a wife to take care of. You know, let's go all in. Fuck it."
So that's how -- we always get to this point of like -- our backs are against the wall.
And that's when sort of the adrenaline starts pumping, and we start to make very bold, bold
decisions. It becomes more difficult when you become
a larger organization. But, you know, Noodle Bar 600 square feet
originally very limited in menu, about five food items, mise en place, our "mise en place"
in French means like basically the stuff you prep out in a kitchen.
It wasn't more than ten or 12 items. So it'd be like scallions, bamboo shoots,
pork shoulder, pork butt. And when you only have so many ingredients,
like five things to work with, after a while, you just look at the same ingredients day
after day, and you're just like, you're not really thinking.
And then, all of a sudden, things started to click.
It'd be like, "Oh, what if we batted." We just -- it was almost like a Rubix Cube.
If we just change this with this, then we have a new dish.
Then, we kept on evolving every day, changing and changing.
And then, we created a foundation in terms of what we wanted as a flavor profile.
Then, the green market happened. And then, asparagus and ram started coming
into the restaurant, which are the first signs of spring.
Rams are such a cliche in New York, but you know what?
Every spring, I get excited, because it's the first thing, and they're so damn tasty.
And it's the one thing that we have over the West Coast.
We have rams. And, you know, so that added a new variable
and food started to change and you become very, very -- we were forced to be creative,
because we had no other option. Necessity is the mother of all invention they
say. And you really feel it when your accountant
is like, "You're going to go out of business in a month, unless you change certain things."
And you don't want to let people down. And for like, the first six months, I remember
reporters or whoever -- journalists -- would ask me like where I worked before.
I wouldn't tell them, because I didn't want to embarrass the people that I work for.
I didn't want to embarrass Mark Kinura, I didn't want to embarrass Tom Colicchio.
I didn't want to embarrass Jonathan Benno. So I just told them, "Please don't mention
where I worked." And then, all of a sudden, it just became
a life of its own. And that's how Noodle Bar started.
Nobody wanted to work with us. And then, that really defined and paved the
way and, you know, created the foundation for how we did things in the future -- which
is basically, make mistakes, grow organically. You know?
I say to the new Noodle Bar now -- I always tell them, "If we serve fish and chips."
Or like recently, I think we just served tamales last night.
And if we serve -- say, we become a tamale restaurant, and that's all we serve.
And it's two years. I'll be very happy, because it means that
we took this weird, organic twist and turn and, How come Momofuku Noodle Bar's only serving
tamales? 'Cause it's weird, right? [laughter]
But I would be very excited, because that means everybody was involved in this process,
and then, it evolved every day. We didn't have this sort of game plan that,
"You had to do this. You had to do that." We didn't have a mission statement, you know?
So that's been very difficult to sort of keep this creative process of limiting your colors.
And I found that, a lot of the chefs that I admire around the world -- probably number
one right now is this guy Rene Redzepi _______ Copenhagen.
He's worked at El Vie. He's worked at French Laundry.
He's incredibly young, you know? His restaurants rank third in the world -- from
restaurant to restaurant magazine -- and it deserves to be so.
So, if you're ever in Copenhagen, check out Noma.
It's really, really amazing. But he's pretty much set off what he can cook
with in terms of like, a hundred-kilometer radius.
And it's really interesting, because this guy can cook anything he wants to.
And it dawned on me how smart it was. In the spring and summertime, he's preparing
for the wintertime. He has the ability to use -- to cook with,
you know -- I could use a Crayola crayon box, 128 or whatever they come in -- He's chosen
to really just cook with five colors. And it's really amazing to see somebody push
the culinary envelope with the most basic of things.
And there's some real genius behind that. And when you put a ceiling on yourself, I
find that that's when our best dishes come about.
When -- you know, right now, we're opening a place in Midtown.
And a lot of times, when we are -- and this is another example.
The chef that's going to be there -- I'm not going to be the chef.
I'm now into delegating. Tien Ho's going to be the executive chef.
We've been experiencing problems, because we took over the space.
Because the kitchen in Midtown -- a place called Ma Peche, which hopefully is going
to open soon -- is huge. It's enormous. I've never seen a kitchen this
size. I mean, our places are tiny.
This place is -- we don't have. We fight for storage -- this place, we can
store stuff anywhere, and New York storage is at a premium.
It took a while -- and again, it happened at Noodle Bar too.
When we moved Noodle Bar, and when we went to Ma Peche, we had a kitchen that had every
toy possible. And we just fucked it up, because we didn't
know what to do. We got lazy.
You get lazy when you have all these perks, when you have a full range.
You have all these equipment that works. When you have nothing, you're just a little
bit hungrier than the person that has everything. And that's something that has really influenced
our cooking, and is probably one of the things -- one of the sort of guiding principles
in the restaurant that I'm trying to make sure that everyone understands.
Like the hungriest guy in the room -- the guy with nothing to lose -- is the most dangerous
person. And that's the type of attitude we want.
And you know, you don't have to be the best cook in the world, but we want people with
the high level of integrity that are willing to just do whatever it takes.
And it's much more difficult to find these days. So, it's weird.
You know, the creative process of cooking, making dishes -- it's less about being in
it and more about sort of being in the editing role.
Somebody told me this way back when. And I was like, "I'm never going to get to
that point." And if I do get to that point, I wouldn't
want to be that guy. I'm that guy now.
And you know, I want to get back into the kitchen.
I want to -- I keep on saying things like that, but now, it's like a big organism.
There was one person, and then there's two people.
Now, we have what -- over 300 employees. So, I have to decide what's best for -- not
just myself -- but for everyone. Could I spend all my time in the kitchen just
doing R and D? Yes, I'd love to do that.
Do I want to speak to the public all the time? Not particularly.
Do I want to do a book tour? Not really, but if -- I'll do whatever it takes for the greater
good of the restaurant. And so, there are younger cooks out there.
And that's one of the things we realized, or I realized, "If someone's better at something,
instead of trying to be well, very competitive about it, I'm just going to be like, 'Well,
you are better at it, maybe I can learn something, run with it.'"
And that's what we try to do at our restaurant and stuff.
So the book we wrote with Peter -- who is running to get markers, or maybe he's back
-- but Meehan was working in the New York Times, and I had no idea that he -- well,
that's another story, but. We capture basically, from Day One of opening
Noodle Bar 2004 to March 2008. Regrettably, we don't have Milk Bar, because
we just -- we needed to get the book into the publisher.
And Christina Tosi is going to work on her own book, which is great.
But it also documented -- like the menu at Ko that's in the book is totally different
now. We're changing.
We're constantly changing. And that's what I sort of tell people at our
restaurants that are making the menus, that are cooking the food, you know, "People, we're
over-hyped." I mean, it's on every blog. I know it. I hate
it. I hate the fact that people come in expecting
to have like, a really good meal. [laughter]
We want them to have a great meal, but that's the challenge that is on us now.
It's like, "Well, we have to live up to the hype."
And there's no better feeling than proving someone wrong -- at least, for me it's.
So when people enter our doors, whether it be Noodle Bar, Ko, or Ssam Bar or Milk Bar
being like, they want to come in hating this place.
I think we all know what this is like -- whether it's the football team, a band, an author,
or whatever. Something that gets hyped up so much where
you're like -- it's almost like human nature now.
You just want to hate it. It's our goal to make you feel wrong -- to
make you feel that you leave the place being like, "I'm glad I spent my money there.
That was worth everything that people have been talking about."
And that's one of the things too. So, out of that first restaurant came a lot
of the core principles from how we run our business today.
And, you know, it was probably -- one of the most important things is, I'm never happy
with the status quo. If you're just meeting expectations, you're
failing. And I want us to constantly be changing, which
is why like, if Noodle Bar turned into a tamale shop, I'd be very happy.
That means we're tinkering every day -- we're messing around with something.
So yeah, it's been a crazy trip. And the reason we wrote the book, quite honestly
-- besides publishers asking us -- was, I always have this fear that everything's going
to fall apart; everything is going to end. And I really thought, at that time we were
writing the book, that we wouldn't be around in a month or a year.
Because there's so many variables; there's so many things going on.
And the economy was bad. I was just like, "Well, this has been such
a crazy ride, we might as well get talking about this."
So, that's why the book is written the way it is.
And I think Peter Meehan did a great job. And we had an amazing photographer in Gabriele
Stabile, which was impossible. Imagine going to Clarkson Potter, a division
of Random House known for doing Martha Stewart cookbooks and Food Network cookbooks and retail
them. Yeah, they gave us a list of photographers
they wanted to use, and we gave them our list. Richard won, and he's never shot food before
in his life, but he's a photo journalist that had done stories of war, poverty, and famine.
[Laughter] His portfolio wasn't necessarily the thing that cookbook publishers go giddy
about, but I think Gabriele did a great job and it's a real testament to him and everyone
in the entire crew, so. If you like the book, it's because of the
people that were behind it and the team effort. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the team
that are cooking at the restaurants right now.
So I'm incredibly lucky to be here and to be talking to you all.
This is very, again -- surreal. This whole thing is very surreal.
So, enough of me rambling on. I think we'll go to Q and A.
Don't give me tough questions. Your colleagues on the West Coast gave me
tough, tough questions. [laughter]
Q I have one for you. I was curious -- there was this point, you
said, when you were about to go out of business, right?
And you had a month of budget left, right? I'm curious like, What made the switch from
the the failure that you felt you had for six months and then, you know, the success
that kept you going after that? You know, in that month time, when you were
just about to fail, what was the switch? Was it just the constant, hard work you poured
into it in the six month? It was just kind of like a slow accumulation
to some sort of crescendo? Or was it, you think, a stroke of luck that
kept you going that month? Or was it some like, act of desperation you
managed to pull out of thin air that you said, when you were backed into the corner?
Like, what was that?
A We really pulled it on over our ass -- that's what I would say.
I think it's all of the above. It was the right timing -- right place, right
time. Our restaurant? Right place, right time.
When we opened up our stuff ten years ago, we wouldn't be here.
Yeah, it was all those things. It was an act of desperation, and it was the
right timing; it was the season. I think one of the big factors in that change
-- that happened for the better -- was, we started to learn how to run the business,
you know? I didn't have to ask questions about the cash
register. And we learned that like -- we were an all
cash business for the first six months. And then, we were like, "Wait a second. We
should take credit cards." [laughter] It's like, 'duh'. You know?
Little things that you don't think about. Because like, credit cards -- people are going
to spend more money, you know? For whatever reason, there's only a handful
of institutions that are all cash businesses and they do well at it.
Because people know beforehand, "I have to go into this restaurant with a huge wad of
cash" -- like Lugers -- "or I'm screwed." Nobody knew who the hell we were, and we expected
them to pay cash. So people would be like, "You don't take credit
cards?" So that was -- little things like that, so.
It would be like a hundred little things like that, that see?
We did not know how to run a business. I'm not joking.
And it was like, "Oh, yeah. We take credit cards."
And all of a sudden, booze sales went up, and people were buying more food.
And I was -- we weren't messing it up -- a drawer at the end of the night, because everything
was all computerized and nice. But, the dream of opening up that restaurant
was to keep it simple, like a Mom-and-Pop store.
In a Mom-and-Pop store, I guess you can do that.
But we were understaffed, and we finally -- and another reason why is, we started to get help.
People started to work for us. We had a very high turn-over rate the first
year, so.
>> [pause]
Q Hi. Thanks for coming. I live down the block from Ssam Bar and Milk
and Honey. So thanks for the extra five pounds. [laughter]
And noticed recently at Ssam Bar that there's been like, a lot more cocktails on the menu,
and they're really good. Is that an area that you guys are thinking
about expanding? Have you ever thought about going into the
bar business?
David Chang: Yeah, I think about going into the bar business all the time.
I think that's every -- if you talk to most cooks and you ask them like, "What do you
want to open up?" They'll tell you, "A pub" or "A bar" or "Sandwich
shop", something that's just like very easy. Not that it's easy -- that's the problem.
Nothing's easy. We had a liquor permit, and we got a hard
liquor license finally. And again, it just sort of happened.
My friend, Don Kim -- who worked at PDT -- was available, and we were like, "Let's go."
He's very talented, and I was just like -- we sort of create the, you know, "How big the
sandbox is." And you can do whatever it is, as long as
you don't play outside that sandbox. Then you won't get in trouble.
So, we have a cocktail program, and it's working. So yeah. Opening up a bar would be a lot of
fun. Bars make money. Restaurants don't.
Q Hi. I also live like, right across the street from Ssam Bar.
So thanks. It's delicious. Can you talk -- just for as long as you want
-- about how you make like, pork buns so good? [laughter]
How do you make the pork so soft, and fat taste good, and the bun part is in it?
It's just the whole thing.
David Chang: Well, one of the things -- we'll talk about pork.
And you know everyone's like, "Oh, you became this pork guy."
Well, no. We open a ramen shop and ramen is pork-based.
And it wasn't my intention to have all this pork.
But pork, for a lot of people, has traditionally been commodity raised, not pork, in confinement.
And you know, the other white meat. Pork's not supposed to be white meat.
It's not, at all. So, I liken it to drinking tang vs. freshly
squeezed orange juice -- that much of a difference. So if anything, if our pork buns are delicious,
it's because of the pork we're using. And all we're doing is cooking it very slowly
-- slow roast. And you know, you could put that same pork
in between some Wonder bread, and you'll have a tasty sandwich.
So I think a lot of it has to do with the product we're using.
>> [pause]
Q Hi. I too live in the neighborhood. I live between Noodle Bar and the Ssam.
So it's like wonderful choice. My question's about the huge awesome photo
of the band that you have. What's up with that?
It's like the first thing I noticed when I walked into the noodle bar.
Can you talk about that?
David Chang: Yeah, it's very large. At the noodle bar, we have this big photo
of the band from the -- it's on the inside cover of the big pink from the band -- they
used to tour Dillon. And if you're not familiar with them -- one
of my favorite bands of all time. And for whatever reason, I was like, "I love
that photo. I'm going to find a way to get that." And
yeah. I'm not concerned with the interior or anything
else or all these other things going on, but I was like, "We have to get this photo."
So if you notice, out of all these restaurants, we have a big John McEnroe at Ssam Bar.
Totally random. I do love John McEnroe. But besides that, it's just totally random,
and it's funny. I mean, you go to restaurants and you see
pictures, you know, that are totally everything random and then arbitrary too, like, "Great.
You have a picture of an apple on the wall. What the hell's that? You're in a restaurant.
Why not just put something random?" So that's why.
And the band, for me though, was much more of a team effort.
That was the first time we actually put something on the wall that had some type of significant
-- or symbolic meaning or metaphor. Because everyone in that band could play every
instrument, and they edited the process. Every every song got ripped part.
And that's what made them so very successful. And it took a long time working with Elliott
Landy, the photographer who's in Woodstock -- very, very long time -- took about a year
to get that photo right. So.
Q [inaudible]
David Chang: No, no, no. He didn't care about it.
Elliott Landy, he's a very successful photographer. He just -- he was more concerned about his
photo being -- making sure we weren't going to sully his reputation, so.
Q So I live in Brooklyn, no where near any of your restaurants, but I did check out the
Ko and I had --
David Chang: Glad you could get in.
Q Yes, I got in. And it was definitely a culinary adventure.
So right around like probably the seventh or eighth course, I wasn't sure I was going
to make it to however many there was, like 13 or something like that.
So what made you kind of go with that many courses and kind of the concept behind that?
David Chang: So Noodle Bar -- transformation. So Noodle Bar was 600 square feet.
We did 27 seats, and we would do 300 covers a day.
So that's like about turn and a half on an average day.
It just wore out. The only way -- we had the lease when we moved
into Noodle Bar, the only way we could keep this restaurant -- keep it as a restaurant
-- was to do fewer covers. And that number was 12.
So it allowed us to do multiple course tastings. So that's why we did dinners ten courses and
lunch, you know, was only one seating. So we could do 17 courses.
Which I think -- it's a lot, but if you go to a lot of these like, recently I had like
a seven-and-a-half course dinner and it was 47 courses.
And, you know, we can't do that. But we thought that 17 was about the right
number and ten was about the right number for dinner.
And it also has to do with the timing. Dinner, we have to turn the tables once.
So that's the reason why. It was a certain price point and we can't
just do three courses, so. Hopefully you had a good time.
Q Hi. I have two questions actually. One is, how much cooking do you actually still
do? And the second question is not for me.
I am not vegetarian. I never wish to be vegetarian, but I do have
friends who are. And we --
David Chang: I'm sorry.
Q No, it's really hard.
David Chang: I'm sorry, because it's a pain in the ass for friends organizing.
Q So this is the thing, right? When you talk about the Ssam dinner, it was
six meat-eaters. And the title of the e-mail I think was actually
"meat feast." We now have a meat club where we have picked
another restaurant to go to, to eat more meat. But -- not that I wish to exclude my vegetarian
friends -- but I was just interested to know what your thoughts on vegetarianism were.
And I know there are probably vegans and vegetarians like staring dagger eyes at me right now.
But also if you had any intention of having something else that was more vegetarian.
For me, I know that like, even Noodle Bar is not recommended for vegetarians.
It actually says that on some of the menus, which I think is kind of cute.
David Chang: What was the first part of the question you asked?
Q The first question was, How much cooking do you do?
And the second question was, How much do you hate vegetarians? [laughter]
David Chang: Right now, I'm not cooking that much.
And I don't like working behind the line at the restaurants that are all open.
I thought Ko would be the last project I would work on.
But it got a little too intimate, and I don't want to yell at the guests.
I've done that before when we first opened up, because I get a little too 'into' it.
And for health reasons too, I get a little too 'into' it.
My stress level gets a little too high. And, for many reasons, I'm spending less time
physically cooking, but hopefully that's going to be -- in a few months I'm going to be able
to channel that energy into a different way. But right now, I'm doing the book tour.
And you know, I keep my hands in the kitchen, but not as much.
In terms of the -- not as much as I'd like. That's a whole -- we could spend all day talking
about my problems with that. But in terms of vegetarians, I have nothing
against them. And the reason why we don't serve vegetarians
-- or have vegetarian friendly menus -- is because we're New York City.
There's thousands of restaurants. So, you don't go to a Sushi Yasuda, or Masa
and ask for a vegetarian menu. You don't go to Peter Lugers and ask for tempeh.
You don't go to, you know, I'm just, Why do we have to cater to everybody?
[laughter] Seriously. Like, Why do we have to cater to everybody?
I mean, it's not like we don't love vegetables. I love vegetables. I love cooking with vegetables.
But it just sort of became one of those things. Why do we have to create an extra menu?
That's sort of how it happened, and I have nothing against vegetarians and vegans.
I mean, a lot of my friends from college are vegetarians now.
And I just think it's ironic that, you know, they're not going to eat something on the
menu that's maybe local. I was at a wedding, and I got in a big fight
with all my friends -- with one of them. And it was a local lobster, it was local vegetables
and local everything. But, no, no -- all the protein was local,
but all the vegetables were from all around the universe.
But he wouldn't eat something that was caught within a hundred yards.
And he was like, "It's all about protecting the environment. Being green."
And all this stuff -- which I'm all for, but I'm like, "Dude, your entire plate is carrots
from Chile, asparagus from Peru, and I think you're doing more harm by not."
He's like, "Well, I don't want to hurt a centian thing."
But I was like, "Well, if you're not supporting your local farmers or your local -- just people
that are making food locally, I think that makes more sense."
So if you're going to be a vegetarian, eat what's within, you know, walking distance
or driving distance. So I could go -- again, that's a whole another
topic, sorry.
Q Hi, David. I'm a big fan of your food. I've not had a chance to try your Ko restaurant,
because the website appears to always be blocked off with reservations.
I was wondering if maybe there's another like, secret way to get a reservation?
[laughter] Or if there's a coupon book?
David Chang: I figured you guys could just crack into our computer system.
[laughter] Yeah. I'm surprised that it hasn't happened.
Really, it's not that complicated. [laughter] Whoever made it, it's not that complicated.
And no, there aren't any secrets. It's, you know, try later in the afternoon,
and try on Sundays and weekends and holidays. You know, it's 12 seats.
We're very lucky that we're still busy and people want to eat there, so.
Yeah, I try. It's totally ridiculous process. [laughter]
I was like, I have the patience of a five-year-old. There's no -- I was just like no.
I can't even do it, so.
Q Hi, I was really interested to hear you talk about the craft of making food, working
with your hands. And I've never cooked professionally, but
the two times I've cooked either a lot of food in a row or for a lot of people, it was
-- one time was for a group that was consistent. So we were making the food, but I think what
we created was really like the love of the continued experience and the repeat meals
with the same group. And the other was because we're putting as
much energy into the food, but I didn't feel like we were getting the same thing back,
because the people tasting -- or the people evaluating it -- kept changing.
So, for you, is it the craft of making meal or is it the craft of building a restaurant
or somewhere in between?
David Chang: It's all of the above, and it's also, you know, tasting, you know, making
something with your hands and like, taking the carrot and transforming a raw carrot into
like carrot paper. That's a lot of work, and that's something
-- you can see that -- that's one thing about cooking, where you can see the process from
'raw' to 'finished' in one day. Or, if not one day, you had the pleasure of
say, making duck prosciutto or ham, for instance. I'll never forget like, when I made my first
prosciutto. Did it come out great? No.
But it was like nine months. And it was just like waiting, waiting, waiting.
And you break down the hog, and you do it. And that process is wonderful and beautiful.
That's sort of what I call 'craft,' so.
Q Thanks for coming. How do you -- one of the things you were talking
about was hunger and success and I guess, wondering how you guys reconcile success and
continued pursuit of success and growth -- more restaurants, cookbooks, etc -- with trying
to artificially or actually instill the hunger that is required to take all the risks and
do cool stuff, you know? I mean, I guess it's more -- it's not just
a lesson for cooking; it could be said of places like Google.
You know, how to raise a child, any of that stuff.
So I'm just kind of interested in your take on, "Now, you've made it, how do you keep
yourself and your folks honest?"
David Chang: Well, by never thinking that we've made it.
Don't believe that you ever made it. I'm weirdly paranoid like that.
If you start resting on your laurels, you're screwed basically.
Don't believe the hype. Don't believe anything. You have to be your harshest critic, and you
have to be constantly improving, so. It's very hard to do.
And telling you right now, I'm having a hard time trying to make sure that is happening.
And I think that's -- I guess that's something that every company has to struggle with, so
I'm figuring that out myself.
Q Thanks.
David Chang: Thanks.
Q Just another question about the reservation system [laughter] I've actually haven't had
any problems. I've been to Ko twice already. [laughter]
Anyways. I was just curious, What was the intent when
you decided to come up with your reservation system?
And do you actually think that it's worked out and done what you wanted it to do?
This is something you wanted to do again in the future with another restaurant?
David Chang: Well, we have -- we did it because it's 12 seats.
And we hire an employee to answer the phone. That's what? -- 35 minimum, $40,000 a year.
Why? For 12 seats. And then, it would just become sort of a club
for like, friends. And it would just be process.
I get bogged down at least 30 minutes of my day, "Hey Dave, can you get me a table?" You
know, these are friends that you have to do it.
And I wanted this place and the cooks and chefs that work there to be free from anything
other than just focusing on the food. And if they were free from the B.S. of trying
to get reservations for friends, then that was one big step that I could take off their
plate. One big pile of shit they didn't have to deal
with. And yeah, it's -- has it worked out perfectly?
No. But it's worked out in the sense that we wanted
to create a fair and equal place where anyone could eat.
It sucks when chefs come into town or friends come into town, and they can't plan -- of
course we want people to eat there, but it's 12 seats and we didn't.
I wanted it independent, because I also didn't want to get clobbered with like, "Hey, Dave,
can you get me a seat?" I'm like, "Sorry, man, I can't. It's independent
of me." So, people don't believe me, but that's just
the way it is. And yes, it sort of worked.
We've applied it to our Bo Ssam reservations, our fried chicken, and who knows what's going
to happen, so. That's again, it's one of the those things
that was sort of 'on a lark' and it just happened. And again, the primary reason was, "Why the
hell do we need one person answering the phone for 12 seats?
Can we find an easier way?" So that was how it came about.
Q Thanks.
Q Hi there. I also had a question about the reservation system.
No, really. I was wondering if you could talk a bit about your inspiration.
You cook some very unusual dishes, and I was wondering where you get inspired to make those?
David Chang: Usually in an altered state. [laughter]
No, a lot of the times, it's eating at another restaurant or just -- a lot of times just
messing around with food. That's what I was saying, it's hard to create
food when you're not physically touching it. I thought I could be, you know, theoretically
-- or just like messing around with food in my head, but for me, I've learned that
I have to be touching with food. I have to be the one making mistakes.
So, that's one of the reasons why it's been very difficult transition for me to not be
handling food and making recipes and stuff like that.
I need to work with food. I just can't think about food.
I can write about food. I can think about food, or I can do it, but
the glue that puts it all together is, for me, touching the food and working with food,
so. That's just my process.
Everyone has their own unique way. That's mine.
I have to take a shotgun approach at food and just see what sticks on the wall, so.
Q So I actually do have a question about the reservation system.
Is it actually true that your parents couldn't even get a reservation?
David Chang: Well, they had their chance to come with their friends and family.
They couldn't make it. [laughter] And I felt that -- and I still feel this way
very strongly that -- if I show favoritism, then it just undermines the reservation system
and it undermines what we're trying to do to all of our managers and the people that
work at our restaurants. I never want to be in a position where we
take from our employees. And I feel that, you know, just because we
set this reservation system, I want to keep my word and say like, "Yeah."
So they did have to wait a year. My sister wound up getting them a reservation.
Did I feel like a jerk? Yes. But again, it was the lesser of two evils
for me. It was like, "I would rather have them do
it the right way, than to go out and." Then, I'd have to do it for everybody, so.
That's why. So it is true. So I am a jerk. [laughter]
Q Just a question about your recommendations for other restaurants you love in the city.
Particularly cheap eats.
David Chang: I love -- it's a well-known fact, I love All Grand Schezwan Internationals.
You have one on 23rd and Nineth Avenue, I believe, and Chinatown.
Cheap eats, though, I usually stick to Chinese food, not that it's cheap, but I don't know.
If I had my choice, I'd really like us to have the Mission from San Francisco in New
York City somehow. That would be great cheap eats.
Q Great, thanks. Another idea?
David Chang: Yeah, working on it.
Q Last week, there was a massive Twitter that went around your, I guess, documentary on
like, vbs.tv?
David Chang: Yeah.
Q It was truly amazing, and I loved the cameo of Gary Vaynerchuk at the end of it.
Is that part of a bigger documentary that you're doing, or was it just this one little
clip?
David Chang: It was one random thing, yes. That's a one shot deal. And yes.
That basically documents the state of how drunk I am throughout the night, so. [laughter]
Q I hope somebody in Mountain View asks this, but when are you going to open up
something in San Francisco?
David Chang: Probably not. Not that I don't want -- I love San Francisco.
[laughter] It's funny how things become these like, lightning-rod
things that like, that could be now on a blog or something and like I get, "Dave trashes
San Francisco again" blah blah blah. [laughter] Such bullshit.
I wouldn't do it, because I think that it's very difficult to operate a business in San
Francisco. I think it's wonderful that all restaurants
have to provide health insurance for their employees.
I think it's great. And I think it's great that, you know, it's
mandatory. What I don't think is great is that you have
to pay minimum wage to servers that are anywhere from 9.50 to 10.50 an hour.
They're bringing home, you know, on a 30-hour work week maybe sixty, seventy thousand dollars.
I think that's unfair to do that, but you know there's a lot of bureaucracy in San Francisco
that I find to be -- I just couldn't open up a restaurant -- in San Francisco proper.
I think it's -- there's just too much red tape and I would never.
That's probably the main reason why. So, and you know, I think they don't really
want New York chefs coming to San Francisco. They're very territorial.
Q [inaudible]
David Chang: [laughter] Well, I never say 'never', but right now, I don't see any plans.
But if you ever see me on Dancing with the Stars, then you'll probably see me in San
Francisco. [laughter] Which I hope will never happen.
>> I think we have time for one more question.
David Chang: Sure.
Q Talking about opening new restaurants, and obviously, the new restaurant coming in Midtown
soon -- Are you afraid that you're going to get to the point where you just have the Momofuku
name attached to something without really being able to get as involved?
Is that something that concerns you? Is it more of a collective more than just
about you, or? You know how do you see all that?
David Chang: It is something that I -- well, the question is like, how do I deal with the
Momofuku brand as we grow and my involvement with it.
And a lot of it is collective, you know. We're making people owners, and I want my
involvement to be less and less. And, as we grow, I can't be at every restaurant
cooking behind every stove. And you know, Marco Pierre White said it best.
That's why he called bullshit on it all. He's like, "I'm not."
He would rather quit as a chef and just be a restaurant owner, than say he's a chef at
like, five restaurants. And that's why at Midtown, I'm not saying
I'm the chef there. I'm not. Tien Ho is exactly the chef there. I'm just
his friend helping out. You know Tien should have had a restaurant
a few years ago. Now, he has his opportunity and he's got a
real deal and he's going to be the chef owner there, so.
That's how we're going to, I think, approach the future as a group.
It's not a singular effort, and it's only going to make our group stronger I think,
so. Thank you very much guys.
>> [Clapping]