Hi, I'm Tamara Lackey. On this episode of
I speak with commercial photographer
into commercial photography, the steps he
today. And he shares with me feedback on
machine. Check it out!
Hi Eric! Hey how's it going? Ok! Thank
New York City right? Yeah! You guys are
to come come in for the interview and I
we're in Union Square and you're
Yeah so I'm on St. Mark's Street, where
Yes, oh my gosh, I love like all the food here.
recommendation I've given you, is in the
good ones I think I've hit every one of them
Have you done Caravan of Dreams..?
Done, There's another one for the list. I"ll hit
that one up next. So you are a hustling
photographer? Right yes. If I can say it
that way. Yeah tell us about how you got
started, and how you kind of broke down
some doors. Okay well I'm a commercial
photographer, so this is what I do for a living,
Not easy to jump in and do! No! absolutely not
Yeah, and it, um it definitely wasn't easy
when I when I started it either. Because
this was kind of pre-education era! Not
everyone was out there.. 'here are my trade
secrets', 'here's my lighting setups', 'here are
my business tips'.. You know? It's like
we're in a much more friendly kind of
environment nowadays to come up. You
kids don't know!
Yeah exactly! I just turned 33 on Friday and I'm like
now I feel like that old man shaking my
fist! But um,,, but yeah.. it was, it was
definitely interesting! Right off my turf
give me my clients back, but I ran into a
couple friendly photographers early on,
that kind of helped me make the
transition! Which was nice nice, but yeah!
I started growing up in Florida just
taking pictures for fun. My grandfather
was a commercial photographer in
Wisconsin. So there were cameras
everywhere all the time. Yeah! My mom was
an artist and also dabbled in
photography, so they were they were there,
and growing up in Florida, you do fun
things, in a beautiful location and.. Where were
you? Clearwater Beach area! Aww..
So Clearwater, St. Pete, yeah, yeah so it's..
it's yeah, it's breathtaking,
all the time, 365 days a year, it's sunny,
and beautiful, and then you get out there
on the water, and you do
things, and you skimboard, you surf and I
wanted to document that. So, so you
decided to leave this beautiful paradise,
because work. Yeah, I was, went to school
for general business over at UCF. I
initially went because they had a photo
program there, but thought I might be
interested in photojournalism! Got over
there, kind of was turned off by the old
school brick and mortar approach to
photography or teaching photography, so
I switched to general business, and ended
up shooting throughout college anyways,
and making most of my money that way! So
you focus on business, but then kept the
art up! Exactly. Which is smart, that's the
way to go! Yeah I mean, it's the stuff
they don't teach you in college unfortunately.
It is the business stuff.
Yeah. That's amazing how many interns and
assistants I get in with great education,
limited business knowledge! I can shoot a
great fine art piece under the exact
right perfect lighting! Exactly. Yeah
inside, you know, that's cute! Now when a
client wants you to reproduce that under
not ideal circumstances, what do you do?
Yeah exactly, so that's why I moved. So the
running joke is I'm like living my life
backwards! Most people work through their
youth and retire in Florida! I kind of
grew up in Florida and then you know
started moving farther north as I
progressed in my career in photography!
Exactly! Yeah if only it were true with
aging and everything else as well would
be wonderful!
Yeah. So how did you start getting into
commercial photography, which is a really
hot field that a lot of people want to
get in? So I started shooting everything,
like pretty much everyone does. I was a
generalists and it wasn't a conscious
thing, it was just I needed to make money,
and I didn't know where I wanted to kind
of carve out my niche yet! Yeah so I shot
a ton of weddings, I shot a lot of event
photography! I shot product photography
for small shops, I did everything and
kind of found what I gravitated to, and
that was the people. I looked at all of
it, the overall arc was, man... I really
enjoy meeting new people, and
photographing them. Yeah, and it wasn't in
studio. It was probably growing up on the
beach. I was like man I love shooting, you
know my buddies surfing, in between my
surf sessions, and then.. wow! This is
really cool location, stand by this palm
tree.. you know! Let me get an
environmental portrait. I didn't know I
was taking an environmental portrait so
just like... this looks pretty, stand there
bro, and like get a photo kind of thing,
you know! So after after school I
realized that's what I wanted to do, I
wanted to start focusing on shooting
people, and I still did a lot of weddings and
things around Florida, because you put me
in a studio with inanimate objects, and I
start making voices for them! And you
know you kind of lose your mind, so I
want to have something to, someone to
bounce energy off of. Right! so after that
I just kind of moved around the Orlando
area, and back to the beaches taking
pictures. You started making voices for
inanimate products? Yeah, you
would eventually, if you get trapped in a
room photographing products all day. Like
I just can't do it. Yeah! so you're at
least, Yeah you need, you need the people.
All of this, is what I deciding. Yeah! So I
did that around Florida. I actually
moved to Detroit, which is a little bit
larger market for two years, and then
started getting more work in New York,
and then transitioned to New York full-time.
Excellent, and you say 'more work' - like
what what specifically? Oh, okay, so I
still shoot a ton of different stuff. Great
stuff. Thank you. So I pursue
clothing companies because I figured
clothing companies and the lifestyle
branding behind them, is what's going to
allow me to get out there, and kind of
live the lifestyle that I like. So how
did you start working with the clientele
you're working with now? So my approach
to commercial photography is a little
unique. It's definitely my own. I'm
self-taught as a photographer, and it's
been a lot of trial and error as a
professional in it, as a business owner too.
Yeah so normally the, the regular
progression would be assisting for a
photographer for years, or working in a
studio and then building your portfolio,
learning business from a mentor, and then
going out on your own. Yeah, I basically
threw stuff at a wall to see what would
stick, and then ran with it! Yeah so it
worked in Florida, and has worked
throughout my career, and what it's
basically been, is finding what I love to
shoot, finding people that I like to
photograph, and just doing it, just going
and creating the work, creating the
personal work, sharing that, and then
finding clients that vibe with that, or
that are in that area. That is so
important, the idea of going after what
you love, not just because love what you
do, but also you're going to have much more
passion for it. You're going to try to, you
know fix problems faster or more focused
you know, and that enthusiasm which you
have a lot of you know, really presents
itself to the client, and they want
someone who's jazzed up by the work. Ya
know? and if you're if you partake in
what you're shooting,
you have like an innate sense to be able
to photograph it better. So I used to go
out there, one of my, I laugh. One of my
first big advertising campaigns was for
a surf wear brand., because a buddy of
mine was a sponsored photographer, and
I'm out there just for fun photographing
pictures of him because I surf. I knew
when like he was going to carver a spray
or trick or something was going to happen. I
could anticipate it, so I know I could get the shot.
Yeah. So you had the flow. Yeah.
So someone outside who might got assigned
go photograph surfing, you know, might not
exactly know when to anticipate that, or
get those shots, so I'm looking for
people who like to do, and brands that
represent or outfit people that do what
I do. So different sports or activities
or fitness whatever, it is, yeah that
helps me problem-solve ahead of what a
regular photographer could do. Someone
might walk in with same technical
ability I have, but may not have an innate
understanding of the subject, and not be
able to get the same kind of imagery.
Yeah, it's funny because I think there's
so much to knowing the subject. I
photograph children a lot, and I feel
like I know, okay they're about to throw
themselves in the fountains! Like you
just got to set that up. If I were sitting
on the you know beach, and trying to
photograph surfers, I wouldn't know
what to do, because it's not something
that I'm familiar with, and I don't know
that a lot of people consider that. Like
consider like, can you tap into the flow
of what your subjects going to do you
know.. and then obviously in that vein,
being able to focus a lot, because you do
focus a lot on a combination of
commercialism sports, sportswear, right?
Yeah. And that's your sweet spot? Exactly.
Yeah. So I mean that that's my wheelhouse,
so I look for clients, and I've been
seeking out clients that again are all
about supporting either athletes, or
outfitting clothing, or lifestyles. Yeah.
Lifestyle branding is what's selling
right now. Right! No one wants a polished,
perfect teeth like glinting smile, like
right. Yeah! No we don't need Vanna
White anymore, we're buying into a
lifestyle. Right! so, but how like how do
you literally like, what are the steps
that get you from I love doing this to
now I'm working with awesome brands. Like
what do you do? Okay, you go out and you
photograph people living that lifestyle
and then you show it to them every way
possible. Stand outside of their office
like in Love Actually with signs here
are my photographs you know emails, phone
calls, social media is a great way to
kind of backdoor into different brands,
like Instagram, and yeah. Exactly. So
sharing it and tagging the brands,
reaching out to them for collaborations,
like hey send me a shirt or send me some
gear, and let me show you what I can do
with it. Yeah, so offering to work for
free to show them what you can do? And I
didn't advocate that never! Absolutely,
it's always going to be a trade, in some
capacity, so it's going to be a product trade
or if you do share the images, it's going
to be limited licensing, so you have to be
very clear when you do this. Cause a lot of
people go out there, and be like, oh man
if I can get this brand to send me a
shirt, and then I they featured on their
Instagram all of a sudden the works
going to follow...
No! They're just they're just feeding the
machine, they're feeding the beast. Yeah.
they have to have, brands have to have
social media content all the time, and
sadly they don't have enough to pay you
usually set aside for every post. They're
looking for free content. So when those
kind of relationships start, I always
make sure there's a conversation like
Okay... we're licensing this for a one-time
social media use, that's it, you can't run
this on a billboard, you this can't be
advertising, this can't be point-of-sale but
if you want that later
exactly.. addendum right! It's already
created, it's how we used to shoot work
on spec. So we used to shoot stuff on
spec and hope that it got picked up or
purchased, or maybe they would you know,
use that as as creative and spo, to
hire you for a campaign. Right now it's
almost like we're shooting spec work, and
sometimes it gets aired on social and
then you want to build from there. Well
what's interesting about that cause it's
not unlike portrait photography, where
you.. hey, if you want to do a certain work
at least say here's my prices, and I'll
give you a significant discount. But it's
not free, just to set the tone. What
you're doing, yes, and what you're
doing is, they're like okay, this guy's
legit, he's serious, and if we want to do
more and his works there, which it is!
It goes, it goes from there yeah! But
you're not kidding when you say, like all
the ways to reach them. It's not, you're
not just sitting there, sending out an
email to the photo editor and like
saying - yeah, please, please! Because that
photo editor just got 500 emails that
day, even if the works incredible, it's not
usually going to jump to the top of the
pile, and he's going to think six months
down the road. Oh that one day I got five
hundred and one emails, that one picture
was great I can, I hire him. It's all
about repetition and getting in front of
them multiple ways. Yeah. Well because
what's interesting about that is, that
there are so many photographers who are
good and talented but also sensitive to
rejection.
You know? Because that's part of the
creative spirit, and, and then so they do
reach out t a few times, and they're like
they don't like me, don't like my stuff. They
hate me, it's over, I quit! I'm elling my
camera! Yeah! Right, and that's, that's when
you have to realize it's a numbers game.
Man there was a period after college
before my career kind of got to where it
was self-sustaining, where I've sold cars
and worked in the auto-industry and
things, and the sales training classes
actually paid off because you realize
it's a numbers game.
You're going, for every ten people you
talk to, maybe one will buy a car so as a
photographer if you show your work to a
hundred people, maybe one, maybe one
person like you know 10% or 20% will
will vibe with it. Yeah, you know? But that
doesn't mean they necessarily have a job
that day to give you, so maybe only one
or two percent will actually be able to
like your work, get your work, think of
you and have something to hire you for.
One to two percent. So it's like, it's so
tight man, so you have to understand that
you're going hear a lot of nose, and it's
not personal.
It's usually just circumstantial.
Thanks so much Eric.
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