Person should be inclined towards the recognition that
if there are absolute standards that human beings have recognized
through time in order to live harmoniously amongst each other,
it should push a person to recognizing that
Perhaps there are within human beings a compass that
pushes towards looking at true North...
i don't see why you have to go that far,
it's just i see it as a general understanding that
it's better that we all live together peacefull.
No doubt, you and me we're on the same page.
we don't need someone above us to tell us...
Standards that are relative in nature.
So once you recognize the first premise that human beings have a tendency
to recognize an absolute standard, the second premise should push you towards
the recognition that they have to be there for an absolute standard.
And the only absolute standard that a person can recognize is
the greatest conceivable being, because without that, it relativizes morality
and that goes against the first premise,
which is that human beings through time recognize that
absolute standards are required in order to live in harmony.
And for me, I personally find that a very powerful
and persuasive argument against the idea of atheism and
more towards the possibility of the existence of God.
I don't know.
I think it's just a belief where a socieity we used to get along together....
suddenly have a Creator.
that I'm speaking in probabilistic ways.
I'm not saying that it definitively proves.
I'm saying a person should be inclined towards
the recognition that if there are absolute standards
that human beings have recognized through time
in order to live harmoniously amongst each other.
Yeah. It should push a person towards recognizing
that perhaps there are within human beings
a Compass that pushes towards looking up true north.
I don't see why you have to go that far.
It's just I see it as a general understanding that
It’s better that we all live together peacefully.
No doubt, you and me we're on the same page.
we don't need someone above us to tell us this.
No, we don't. Because like I said, it's within the human being
to recognize truths that we would then define as being Just.
You understand? Yeah.
So justice itself in Islam, I'll give you the definition of justice.
It is placing everything in its proper place.
It is putting everything in its proper place such that if you take something out
and put it in its improper place,
you're essentially taking the rights away from one person
and giving it to another unjustly.
Okay.
......
So I'm pushing now towards the initial premise,
which was that human beings have a tendency of recognizing a standard
that is more towards absolutism than relativism,
and that absolutism can only lead a person to or should,
should lead a person more towards the possibility for the existence
of an absolute being, as opposed to trillions and trillions of beings
that essentially use a relative standard.
I don't know...
That's the argument that
some of our great scholars have used from the point of morality
to show that every human being has that Compass in them.
And that Compass cannot just simply be explained away through random chance.
The fact that human beings collectively right throughout society,
whether you talk about the so called barbaric tribes
within the Indigenous forests of the Amazon from Yankees
or whether you talk about the advanced civilizations
that will exist in the future, we all share a recognition of justice,
and that is putting everything in a proper place.
That's the argument from morality
as I was trying to get across there..
...It's good you know have these discussions do you find common grounds
Have you heard that argument before by any chance?
Nope....
... food for thought....
I am atheist as well...
....Believe that everything should get along together
Why would we need someone above us to control everything?
I heard you as a Muslim....
....Tribes in Amazon.. why do they need... but I forgot my point..
As a Muslim recognize that there is a certain level of belief
that's required to believe in God.
I do recognize that there is a certain level of belief.
But the foundations for recognizing that
it is more feasible that the universe as seemingly complicated
as the teleological argument going towards recognizing that
a universe that is so sophisticated that
progresses from pure random chaos
to something of order requires a set of laws that need to come together
in a way which explains how the universe could have just progressed
from chaos to one of some level of coherent functionality.
As a Muslim, do you believe in evolution?
Evolution to a certain extent, but my belief entails
that I cannot accept the idea that human beings arose from the ape.