♪ (punk rock music) ♪
The secret Bruce Jenner says he always tried to keep...
Oh.
- Caitlyn. - (news anchor) ..is now coming to light,
revealing he considers himself a woman.
I would say I've always been very confused...
- I watched this. I cried. - (Jenner) ..with my gender identity
since I was this big.
Bruce... always telling a lie.
So can I take my pony tail out?
Yeah, why not, huh?
We're talking about all this stuff.
There's been so much talk about this.
(Diane Sawyer) Are you a woman?
Yes, for all intents and purposes I am a woman.
That female side is part of me. That's who I am.
I was not genetically born that way.
As of now, I have all the male parts,
- but we still identify as female. - Good for her.
And that's very hard for Bruce Jenner to say.
Because why?
I don't want to disappoint people.
(spectators cheer)
I didn't know he was an athlete before.
Good for... him/her... she/him? I don't know.
(Diane Sawyer) You were the world's--
(Jenner) Greatest athlete.
Wait, Bruce Jenner did more than just be Bruce Jenner?
That must be so hard to live with.
Even since you were little, you weren't sure.
(Diane Sawyer) People have to know that you can want to
identify as a woman and still--
(Jenner) Kick butt.
Yeah! (laughing) Yeah.
(Diane Sawyer) Even as a small boy,
he has a growing certainty that, for some reason,
the gender of his body is different
from the gender he feels in his soul.
For the next 40 years, wrestling an inner conflict...
See how long it takes people?
(Diane Sawyer) ...marriages to the women he loved,
raising children he could not bear to hurt,
and, finally, as an elusive character on that reality show--
I watch it all the time.
Personally, I just hope he's not using it for the wrong thing.
(Diane Sawyer) We told him there's a lot of skepticism
among people watching him tonight,
people who are convinced that this is a stunt to promote the show.
Yeah, um, we're doing this for publicity.
- Yeah, right! - (laughing)
People really think that?
(Jenner) ...have any idea what I've been going through?
What I'm doing... is going to do some good
and we're gonna change the world.
(Diane Sawyer) He says his story tonight is just one of so many.
An estimated 700,000 transgender Americans--
Actually, I didn't know that the number was that high.
- (Diane Sawyer) Discrimination. - This is so hard.
- (Diane Sawyer) Homelessness. - I'm transgendered.
(Diane Sawyer) Ridicule.
"But I'm excited to start my new life
as a single middle-aged woman," said Bruce.
- (audience laughs) - Why would they joke about that?
(Diane Sawyer) He can't speak for all of them.
He just hopes his decision to come forward will help.
It's like 50/50.
Is it helping, is it hurting?
(Diane Sawyer) ..as the person he calls her.
Bruce lives a lie.
She is not a lie.
I'd be dying.
If I were to ever do that, I would be like,
"Oh my god, I don't think I can do this."
(Jenner) The last few days of doing this shoot...
That moment he's prettier than you.
(Jenner) And who I am as a person.
It's not about the fanfare,
it's not about people cheering in a stadium.
So he would be considered transgender, right?
Honestly, queen.
(Jenner) Bruce... always had to tell a lie.
So beautiful and she's so happy.
(Jenner) Caitlyn doesn't have any secrets.
Soon as the Vanity Fair cover comes out, I'm free.
♪ (inspirational music) ♪
There it is. The famous picture.
Well, I wanna see what good he does out of it
because as of right now I just see a Vanity Fair cover.
I feel like I'm getting emotional right now.
I'm getting a little teared up.
♪ (punk rock music) ♪
(Finebros) Okay, so did you know about Caitlyn Jenner before this?
Yeah.
Yes, I did.
It's all over the internet.
There's been different perspectives on it.
Like, I see the whole LGBTQ+ community
talking about it being a huge thing.
(Finebros) And what does it mean when someone is transgender?
I believe it means when someone identifies as the opposite sex.
You are born as one sex, so you're male or female,
but you identify as the other sex.
You go from a dude to a chick, or a chick to a dude.
They transform from either being a male to a female,
or a female to a male.
I learned a lot about transgender from Orange Is the New Black,
which sounds terrible, but Laverne Cox gave insight
to what the life of a transgender person is truly about.
That's such a weird thing to think about.
Like, I have a penis but I feel like a girl.
I could never think that way.
Everyone can have a perspective,
but if you're not really living it, how are you supposed to know?
(Finebros) When you hear someone's transgender,
what are the types of things that you think about?
- Down there, are they changing? - (cracking up)
Get your head out of the gutter.
(laughs) It's honest!
I picture someone wearing a woman's clothes or the other way around.
It's not something you see every day,
so, yeah, when you talk about a transgender person
it's like I don't talk about them a lot.
The first thing that comes to mind is struggle.
It's always been treated as a really bizarre weird thing,
kind of taboo thing to do.
Trans people are just people that have switched genders.
They're still people.
There's nothing wrong with that.
It's just people aren't ready for it.
(Finebros) Do you believe that it is a true thing
that you can be born the wrong gender?
Yeah, well, why not?
Absolutely. I have friends that are.
I don't think that's true, but if you really believe that
you weren't meant to be a man or a woman,
then you should change that to feel better about yourself.
This is my honest view.
You were born what you were.
If you were born with a penis, you were born with a penis.
Yeah.
As far as transgenders go as well,
if somebody wants to do that,
let them do what they want to do with their life.
It's your life, so if that's what you wanna do, then go you.
How could you tell anybody that it's not true
if you don't experience it yourself?
Why would they be putting all this stress and BS in their life
for, like, "I wanna be different".
Nah, but I'm pretty sure it's real at this point.
(Finebros) So we're gonna run through some of the things
that people say on both sides of the conversation.
There's been people who say that the idea of transgender
- is a mental disorder. - That's horrible.
(Finebros) And that people who claim it's a civil rights matter
are encouraging a mental disorder.
Wow.
Oh, I think that's really messed up.
I can understand how you might think that,
if you were ignorant.
They said the same stuff about people being gay.
How can anyone be happy with themselves supporting
this negative attitude when people are literally killing themselves?
I don't think it's a mental disorder.
I think it's more of how you were brought up.
If you put a young male child around female things,
around a bunch of females growing up--
I mean, I think that's just the way that they'll grow up.
(Finebros) What you're saying here wouldn't apply
because Jenner wasn't raised that way.
That's confusing.
That just confuses the crap out of me.
- Honestly. - Yeah, I don't know the answer.
At the end of the day, it's your life.
You are entitled to do whatever you want to do
because it's you.
(Finebros) On the other side, people say that their gender identity
is different than the sex assigned to them at birth
and they've always known it and that it is science,
it's a biological thing.
So do you think that that's true?
Um... I don't know.
I think that... (sighs)...
I think that it is in your genes.
Hearing that, I don't really see either side.
You're the only person who knows yourself completely.
Other people can't just judge you based on what they see on the outside.
Biologically, you are born a certain sex.
But that doesn't mean that's your gender identity.
(Finebros) So why do these topics that involve sexuality
and gender cause so much controversy?
Yeah, yeah, people are very, very, very insecure
about their feelings.
So a lot of it is insecurity and feelings that you have
that you can't bring out.
A lot of people that have experience
questioning their sexuality
have this confusion which turns into anger.
We're a very sex-phobic nation.
For so long, America has been such a conservative place.
A lot of influence comes from religion and beliefs to teach us,
"Oh, I don't like that because it's bad."
Religion always has put gay people in bad spots.
Like, "Oh, you're gonna go to Hell."
And this is also a part of that.
Being Christian and having gay friends and transgender friends
has to be the most struggle.
I'm not gonna hate transgender people ever
but my religion says that
we just can't support much of it.
(Finebros) Well, I'll play a little bit of devil's advocate.
Would you consider yourself a racist person?
(emphatically) No!
(Finebros) What is different?
Not accepting someone with a different skin color
is something that's wrong and shouldn't be,
but someone saying they're the other gender maybe is wrong.
How would you define that difference?
(groans)
I never thought of it that way.
I don't know.
(Finebros) If there was a fam member or close friend of yours
that told you that they were transitioning,
do you think it would change your relationship with them?
No, why would it?
I'm gonna love them no matter what they are.
If it was my mom or my dad, it would be a little strange.
I would be kind of awkward at first,
but you just gotta take some time to warm up to it.
If anything, it would make me feel prouder of them
because they came out and that's--
you have to have a lot of courage to come out.
If you were transgender this whole time
and you're my really close friend,
why would I change my relationship with you once you labeled it?
Why would a label change anything?
At first, I'd probably be like, "Are you serious?
When did this happen?"
But then, I mean, once they were done I'd be like,
"Okay, so... wanna go get pizza?"
(Finebros) An example of some of the discrimination
that's happened over the years is when it comes to schools
or workplaces not allowing people who identify as the opposite gender
to use that gender's bathroom.
I think that's just stupid.
I mean, that's oppression.
I'm pretty sure that what a transgender person feels inside
is that they are a woman.
And, as a woman, why would you go into a men's restroom?
You would go into a woman's restroom.
I wouldn't walk into a men's restroom right now.
One of the things I like about my school is they're really accepting of that.
They have a gender neutral bathroom.
Granted, it is kind of segregation almost
because you keep them separate, but it keeps them from people
who are gonna, you know, try and harass them.
I definitely don't think that someone who is transgender
should have to use the restroom of their previous gender.
That's not safe for them.
And then, of course, there's always the fact
that perhaps the other gender, the gender they've just become,
isn't comfortable with them there either.
I'm not sure what exactly is the solution.
I know the transgender person, once you use that specific bathroom
'cause they feel that way,
but also you gotta kinda think
some people might not be really comfortable with it.
And I believe you have to respect that.
(Finebros) At that point, you're bordering on segregation
because the same thing could be said about,
"Oh, I'm not comfortable going to the bathroom with a black person."
Yeah, that's-- that's crazy.
Damn!
[Bleep].
Damn, I did not think of it that way.
Okay, then my opinion would be, you know what?
You've gotta learn to adapt.
(Finebros) So back to Caitlyn Jenner.
After she went public, some have said that this takes away
from her athletic accomplishments in the past.
- Do you think it does? - No.
No.
That's just like saying girls can't do sports.
That's what she-- (sighs)
(stammers) Do I say he or she? I don't know what to say.
You did your thing back in the day.
Nobody can strip you of that.
It's still him.
Like, she's sort of-- like, she's still Bruce.
She did that.
The fact that this guy thinks that he is a female
or believes he's a female shouldn't take away from
that former glory that he once had.
I think it will because that's just kind of the way society is.
Why? No!
That's-- oh my god. How can you even say that?
If you knew the type of training you have to do to be
an Olympic athlete and then winning gold in the hardest event...
do you know how-- you have to be a [bleep] badass.
And you're telling me,
"No, bro, 'cause he wants to be a different gender.
None of that counts anymore."
Man, shut your ass up. You can't say nothing.
(Finebros) Another controversy has been how this all played out
in a way that seemed very calculated.
Everything from the interview to the magazine,
leading up to a brand-new reality show all about her.
What are your thoughts about that?
I mean, yeah, it may have been timed perfectly,
but it was a good way to show other people in the world
who are going through something similar
to see if he can do that, I can do something like that.
He's got enough money.
You think he's like, "Oh, I need another show."
There's definitely publicity behind this, but I still think that Bruce
is genuine about how he really feels.
I don't think there really has to be a TV show about it.
That's kind of frustrating because he says it's not all about the fame,
but in a way it is.
Overall, it's great because it gives a lot of people courage
and inspiration to come out and do what they want to do.
It's shining a definite light that people are all of a sudden
really curious about what exactly this is.
(Finebros) Can you talk about the pronoun situation,
how you've been referring to Jenner as both he and she
- during this interview? - I know, I keep forgetting.
I'm so sorry.
I'm still adapting to the transition
because we're all so used to him as Bruce Jenner.
If you have a memory of them as female,
and so when you think of that memory you're like,
"Oh, yeah, she blah blah blah blah blah."
But now that individual is male.
You're like, "Do I... do I change the fact
that I'm talking about them when they were still female into male?"
But I tend to just use what they are now.
(Finebros) So last question:
if someone watching is transgender but afraid to come out
because of the ridicule, what's kind of brief advice
you'd give them or thoughts you'd have about it?
I would wanna say...
you should be you and you shouldn't be afraid
of anyone else's opinion.
Pretending to be someone else your entire life
is not gonna make you feel good at the end of the day.
If you lose people in your life because of coming out as transgender,
then those people weren't worth keeping.
Be who you are and be who you want to be.
And anybody that tells you differently... can screw off.
If you're sadly in a situation where people aren't as supportive,
then find people that will support you.
People that are close-minded and don't understand
why you're doing this, but do it anyway.
You're gonna meet new friends and you're gonna be surprised
how many people actually accept you for you.
I know people who have gone through this and it is not an easy thing
and it probably won't be okay for a really long time
and it's gonna suck.
If you want this and you want to be who you feel you are
on the inside and you want people to love you and recognize you...
fricking fight.
(silence)