You are keeping that cell phone in your pocket.
I'm wondering how to carry this object.
I carry my work like this, too.
Given that the Japanese hugging doll was once all the rage,
there is nothing weird about carrying this object.
This should be carried like this. It’s really comfortable.
It perfectly agrees with your clothes, just like a Japanese rock star.
It should.
I always face the reality that we have lots of things in common.
Like glasses?
Yes, and we have a similar hair style and symbolic color.
Clothes are part of our identity.
I don't understand people who change their clothes so often
because they are like changing your name so often.
By the way, why black?
Black is a panacea. You can go to a wedding ceremony and even to a funeral.
And your name means “Black Stone”.
Black is everywhere, like black cars. All other things have black ones.
Certainly.
There is no color superior to black.
That's why I chose to wear black clothes
back in my school days before my friends did.
Chose?
Not precisely. This is an identity like a given name.
Then you are a Man in Black, and I am a Man in Blue.
Everyone should be interested in identity.
Suppose someone is walking towards you from far away, he never wears a name tag, and...
...if you can't see even his face, what you can see is the color of his clothes, which is very important.
That's why even today I don't understand people who change their clothes so often.
I agree. I appeared in front of the Emperor with this blue ones.
You can't take these off, right?
No. I was even stopped by a guard when entering the venue of my own event.
But that was a betrayal when you once said you took off those clothes at home.
Of course.
But I don’t.
Are pajamas black, too?
Everything is black.
My pajamas are orange because I want to wear complementary color for bedclothes.
The jacket I recently bought was orange inside.
Black and orange is a nice combination.
And the color of your underwear?
It’s black for years.
What if you got a fire at home?
A fire? I would put it out right away!
Yeah, but you would have to run away.
Yes, if it was a big one.
If you wore a white underwear, you had got to put on another clothes.
So, if in a black underwear, you didn’t have to.
Rather, that’s my identity, and I pretended to be jogging.
Ah, you couldn’t if it was white.
The point is I don’t want to go out while my identity is lost.
Question!
Do you wake up straight into society? Don’t you have a private life?
I might not want to see my naked self.
But when you wake up, don’t you feel ‘it’s my life’?
As I said in a fire story, I don’t feel any identity in my naked self.
Question. Exactly what do you mean by ‘naked self’?
No title, and nothing but a mere chunk of meat.
A chunk of meat?
I feel my social identity only when I wear clothes.
Like costume play?
Yes. You can say I’m always cosplaying.
That’s true of me. People often ask ‘where is your true self, Tosa-san?’
I too have a question.
You are a real media artist but sometimes misunderstood when appearing on TV.
Are you doing this intentionally?
Yes. I dare to appear in a comedy show.
I don’t do that, NEVER.
Why not?
Because my research budget would be cut altogether, and...
complains would come up, ‘what the hell are you doing by wasting taxpayers money?’.
It’s just so risky.
And it’s not for a private company.
What’s more, your works are obviously media art, ...
but my Android can be dangerously misinterpreted in a number of ways.
That’s interesting.
If somebody sees this
without listening to your logical and serious talk,
this may seem nothing but a weird object.
Just to be safe, there is nothing immoral in my objectives.
I know, but people will be baffled if they do not know your principle.
I don’t think I can get that.
Because this is a question about confidence.
If this becomes a trend,
everybody will start using it with no particular reason.
This is the case for your OtamaTone.
We might use this and this as phones in the future.
That’s an instrument.
This is a genuine Android smartphone.
Actually I will use Android OS for the internal system.
That makes it a truly Android as the name suggests.
This is also very interesting in the context of art history.
Art began with this kind of humanly figures,
from which every tribe leaned toward abstract ones
as the times went on.
When cameras came to copy realities way better than humans,
artists increasingly started to draw
abstract pictures like surrealism,
Picasso and Cubism.
But you are sort of going backwards to figurative art.
This at least looks like a human.
That’s the point.
This is an “almost” human.
Yes. Minimal design.
This can be an ancient clay figure, but never looks like a dog.
Never.
But if you cover like this, various imaginations open up.
That’s part of my intention.
Different people have different fondness,
such as angles from which they look at this.
What about this?
That’s sexy.
Every facet stimulates your vast imagination, right?
That’s important for both human body and these designs.
I happened to realize
when I hold Android like this while you are talking,
this starts to look like you, Prof. Ishiguro.
Exactly.
When my voice comes up from this mouth,
his begins to look like me talking,
and you feel sick as if hugging my body.
That makes me feel so sick now.
It would be best to hear
the voice of a girl you don't know.
That makes you imagine the best girl you ever know.
Nothing can be nastier than seeing
a middle-aged man talking to his ideal girl like that using the android.
Really.
When given a bigger Android,
everybody hugs and soothes it
without worrying about the public eyes.
We can hardly ever observe that situation.
It's interesting to see them showing their inner emotions.
Then, many will do that on the commuter train in the future?
Perhaps.
This phone is rather for the elderly
to talk with their grandchild.
It would be addictive if their voice is heard from this.
That's the strength of the human-shaped figure.
Some will dare to use this in public,
but many will feel uncomfortable in doing so.
I now feel rather uncomfortable,
but it will be OK in the future world.
Human shape is so powerful in opening up our imagination.
Come to think of it,
our brains are for interacting with
and recognizing other humans.
Through developing Android,
I became keenly aware of how complex humans are.
They have lots of different aspects
I want to make most of.
Potentiality is so vast.
Art will never die out for the time being,
which I deeply felt through my recent research.
Talking about art,
I never expect to see a figurative approach come up
from the field of science.
This is a challenge.
In short, we are replacing art with technology.
You put it casually, but that's lethal for artists.
If so, artists have got to find a new place to survive.
To the point where technology can never reach.
I have yet to find that, but I couldn't agree more.
This is sort of my challenge against your art.
I need to go beyond this Android.
Now that I created this, it will be regarded as technology,
which everybody will be able to create.
The role of artists like you is
to go beyond that technology.
The future products have to be far better than OtamaTone.
That's a strong argument against artists,
but I deeply feel so, too.
Take abstract art for example, I like Mondrian
who used only yellow, blue, red, white, and black.
He drew trees at first
and then his works became far more abstract.
But it now turns out computers can do that abstraction.
Every time I see works like his,
I feel sad to realize that
these works can now be achieved through processing.
The next project is still at the stage of concept.
But to tell the truth I want to create something
that goes beyond this Android, something far simple.
Genuine humanness with nothing in excess?
Yes. So-called “soul”.
Soul?
It would be like when you hold it,
you hold that person's soul at the same time.
It's never shaped like a human, though.
Like "I feel his presence!"
Exactly
"I feel..."
I am now trying 3 different approaches.
The one is media art,
and another is a complex system of life science and math.
Lastly, theories of philosophy.
In my research team, everybody is confused at
my request of creating a soul.
Request to students?
Researchers and students.
I don't tell everything to my students.
I tell them to simulate certain complex systems instead.
I reveal my ultimate goal to my researchers,
and they are often overwhelmed
and behave as if they know nothing about my objectives.
But after a year,
I now somehow feel like approaching to the goal I set.
When I create my works,
I also often think about who I am.
Artists don't rely on analytical method in doing so.
They follow their instinct instead.
But they are hardly satisfied with their instinctive work.
Historically they have been utilizing logical thinking
to get near their artistic inspiration
and managed to draw their logical conclusion.
So I can see your idea of creating a soul.
My approach is somewhat similar.
Ideas are limitless.
As I brainstorm myself,
I find some of the ideas come up repeatedly,
and then suddenly arrive at the critical idea
with no particular reason.
Is that a mechanical idea?
Yes. I don't know why but I feel like trying that idea.
That's how I created this Android.
When I have a variety of ideas, .
I suddenly reach the core idea
as if I got the revelation of God
I can't explain why,
but I feel that very idea can solve everything.
Do you see that idea visually?
Yes, for this Android.
Did this come up like this?
Suddenly.
While in sleep?
Exactly.
I came up with this idea when I was vaguely wondering
what the minimal design of humans could be.
I first told my idea to a couple of designers
but they couldn't share my concept.
Understandably
I end up using a sculpture software
and created it myself.
Did you design this from scratch?
Yes, I did everything.
At first I tried in vain to have designers
to brush up my rough design.
They couldn't understand my imagination.
You saw a kind of basic humanness.
This even looks like extraterrestrials.
Different people say different things,
like this could start to swim or fly.
The principle of this design is
to leave eyes as they are
and simplify all the else.
And to make it difficult to guess the age,
the ratio of head and body is like a child
while the face is an adult one.
Given that Android is created in this world,
we may hear more witnesses about this object.
Many might start using this
and carry it in their pocket.
This may be put by your pillow without your knowing it.
Women won't leave it once you touch it.
Actually I'm holding this all along.
I wonder how I should hold this.
Can you pass out spares of the prototype to the prototypes today?
Oh, I cannot do that.
In a few years, you will find this in cell phone shops.
Even if it was said to take 10 years to complete,
he would do that within a year and half, I assume.
Mr. Yamada is the person you would ask to get it sooner.
Hiroshi Ishiguro and Nobumichi Tosa!