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>> I KNEW THERE WOULD BE
SCRUTINY AGAINST ME IF I
COMPETED AS A WOMAN.
I WAS PREPARED FOR THAT, BUT I
ALSO DON’T NEED ANYBODY’S
PERMISSION.
TRANS PEOPLE DON’T TRANSITION
FOR ATHLETICS.
WE TRANSITION TO BE HAPPY AND
AUTHENTIC AND OUR TRUESELVES.
>> Will: TRANSGENDER SWIMMER LIA
THOMAS THERE OPENING UP ABOUT
THE TIDAL WAVE OF BACKLASH THAT
CAME FOLLOWING THE DECISION TO
COMPETE AGAINST BLIGE WOMEN AT
THE COLLEGE LEVEL.
AND LEAH NOW REVEALS OLYMPIC
INTENTIONS.
SAYING IN THAT INTERVIEW AS YOU
JUST HEARD LEAH’S DESIRE TO BE
AUTHENTIC AND HAPPY IS TAKING
PRECEDENCE OVER EVERYONE ELSE’S
POINTING OUT THIS IS UNFAIR FOR
OTHER WOMEN ATHLETES.
NOW LEAH IS SAYING THAT BEYOND
THE NCAA, THERE ARE OLYMPIC
ASPIRATIONS.
WATCH.
>> ARE THERE OLYMPICS IN YOUR
FUTURE?
>> IT’S BEEN A GOAL OF MINE TO
SWIM AT OLYMPIC TRIALS FOR A
VERY LONG TIME.
AND I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT
THROUGH.
>> Will: SO THERE YOU HEAR IT
WHAT’S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT
THERE AND IMPORTANT FOR THE
VIEWERS.
WE WERE EXPECTING CAITLYN JENNER
IN THIS SEGMENT.
WE ARE HAVING TECHNICAL
DIFFICULTIES BRINGING KAITLIN
INTO THIS CONVERSATION.
WHAT’S IMPORTANT THERE IS LEAH’S
ASPIRATIONS REACH BEYOND THE
NATIONAL STAGE INTERNATIONAL
STAGE.
WE AS A SOCIETY AND A WORLD WILL
HAVE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION
WHETHER ONE PERSON’S FEELINGS
TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER FAIRNESS
FOR ALL.
I THINK WE ARE STILL HAVING
TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES BRINGING
CAITLYN JENNER INTO THE
CONVERSATION.
SO, I BELIEVE DO WE HAVE KAITLIN
RIGHT NOW?
OKAY.
KAITLIN, I THINK WE GOT YOU.
THERE YOU ARE, KAITLIN.
GLAD TO BRING KNEW THIS
CONVERSATION.
>> HERE I AM.
>> Will: THERE YOU ARE.
I DON’T KNOW IF YOU ARE CAPABLE
OF HEARING EVERYTHING ON THE
LEAD-IN RIGHT THERE IF YOU ARE
CAPABLE OF HEARING LEAH LIA TALK
ABOUT MOTIVATION AND SPORTS.
I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR
FEEDBACK ON WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT
THAT INTERVIEW FROM LIA THOMAS.
>> WELL, HONESTLY I THOUGHT SHE
DID A VERY GOOD JOB.
THIS IS NOT LIA THOMAS’ FAULT.
SHE PLAYED BY THE RULES.
AND DID A GOOD JOB AND PLAYED BY
THE RULES.
REALLY, MY CONCERNS ARE WITH THE
NCAA.
THEIR RULES HAVE TO BE A LOT
MORE STRINGENT.
I THINK THEY HAVE TO BE MORE
DIFFICULT.
I CAN’T -- I DON’T THINK JUST
ONE YEAR OF HORMONE REPLACEMENT
THERAPY IS ENOUGH.
AND ACTUALLY ON THE ABC SPECIAL
THEY EVEN HAD A DOCTOR ON THERE
SAYING IT ISN’T ENOUGH.
EVEN FOUR OR FIVE YEARS ON
HORMONE REPLACEMENTS THEY
WOULDN’T HAVE AN ADVANTAGE.
I MEAN, I HAVE BEEN ON FOR SEVEN
YEARS OF FULL TRANSITION.
BEEN ON HORMONE REPLACEMENT AND
I CAN STILL HIT THE GOLF BALL
280, 290 YARDS.
THERE IS A LOT LEFT OVER.
SO I’M NOT BLAMING HER.
I’M JUST BLAMING THE SYSTEM
RIGHT NOW.
THAT HAS TO BE SERIOUSLY LOOKED
AT.
>> Will: KAITLIN, ALSO, BY THE
WAY, AS WE POINTED OUT.
THAT’S THE NCAA SOON BE PERHAPS
DEALING WITH THE IOC AS WELL
WHEN IT COMES TO THESE ISSUES.
I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON A COUPLE
OF THINGS THAT YOU SAID.
RIGHT NOW, AND IT’S DIFFERENT
FOR EVERY GOVERNING BODY FOR
EVERY SPORT.
ONE YEAR OF HORMONE REPLACEMENT
IS THE WAY LIA THOMAS IS BEING
GOVERNED.
YOU ARE POINTING OUT EVEN FOUR
OR FIVE YEARS THERE IS
BIOLOGICAL ADVANTAGE MALE THAT
WENT THROUGH PURSUANT AS A MALE
THAT NEVER REALLY GOES AWAY.
IS THAT YOUR POSITION?
>> ABSOLUTELY IT NEVER REALLY
GOES AWAY.
I MEAN IN MY OWN LIFE I HAVE
FELT THAT.
YOU KNOW, I WILL ALWAYS SAY WHEN
I GOT LEFT OVER IS MORE THAN
MOST PEOPLE EVER HAD.
YOU KNOW, AND I THINK IN ALL
TRANS PEOPLE THAT IS THE CASE.
ONE YEAR OF HORMONE REPLACEMENT
THERAPY IS NOT GOING TO MAKE IT
YOU JUST LOOK AT IT, WHEN SHE IS
STANDING ON THE LINE, SHE IS
TALLER, BIGGER, SHE HAS A LONGER
REACH.
SHE HAS BIGGER HANDS.
SHE HAS TREMENDOUS ADVANTAGE
OVER THE WOMEN.
BUT I RESPECT HER RIGHT TO BE
ABLE TO TRANSITION.
AND BUT I THINK IT’S VERY
DIFFICULT, YOU KNOW, SHE DID IT
TO BE HAPPY.
AND SHE TALKED A LOT ABOUT IN
THE INTERVIEW ABOUT BEING HAPPY.
BUT, ON THE OTHER HAND, SHE MAY
BE HAPPY BUT I’M SURE THE GIRL,
THE SIS GIRLS IN THE BLOCKS NEXT
TO HER AND SEES THIS VERY LARGE
WOMAN WHO SHE KNOWS SHE CAN’T
BEAT, I DON’T THINK SHE IS THAT
HAPPY.
>> Will: RIGHT.
>> I DON’T THINK THE PERSON
THAT, YEAH, THAT MISSED OUT ON
MAKING IT TO THE NCAAS BY ONE
POSITION WHO NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN
DOESN’T GO, I DON’T THINK SHE IS
HAPPY.
IF YOU SAW KIND OF THE REVOLT OF
A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THEY KIND OF
BELIEVED WHAT I BELIEVED AND I
HAVE SAID FROM THE BEGINNING, I
DON’T THINK BIOLOGICAL BOYS
SHOULD COMPETE IN WOMEN’S
SPORTS.
IT’S JUST NOT FAIR.
I HAVE HAVE
ALWAYS BEEN TOUT PROTECT WOMEN’S
SPORTS.
I THINK WE NEED TO DO IT.
AND THE ONLY WAY YOU ARE GOING
TO DO THAT AS FAR AS THE TRANS
ISSUE IS TO REALLY LOOK AT THESE
RULES AND FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING
TO WORK WHERE A TRANS ATHLETE
DOES NOT HAVE A BIG ADVANTAGE
OVER THE SIS WOMEN, THE SIS
ATHLETES.
>> Will: YOU HAVE MADE THIS
POINT SEVERAL TIMES IN THE
INTERVIEW.
YOU DON’T BLAME LEAH YOU SAY.
WE HEARD IN LIA’S WORDS SEARCH
FOR HAPPINESS OR AUTHENTICITY.
ISN’T THERE NOT AN INHERENT
SELFISHNESS IN PLACING YOUR OWN
HAPPINESS OVER A GENERALIZED
FAIRNESS AS YOU POINT OUT?
WHAT ABOUT THE HAPPINESS AND
THAWNTD OF THOSE FEMALE ATHLETES
THAT GOT SECOND OR DIDN’T MAKE
THE FINALS CUTS.
I UNDERSTAND RULES AND WE
SHOULD.
WHAT ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL
ATHLETE?
SHOULDN’T LEAH BEAR
RESPONSIBILITY FOR INHERENT
UNFAIRNESS?
>> YEAH.
SHE GOT A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF
PUBLICITY OUT OF THIS.
BUT, I HAVE ALWAYS FELT FROM THE
BEGINNING WHEN I TRANSITIONED IN
2015, THAT ALONG WITH THIS
TRANSITION THERE ALSO COMES AN
AWFUL LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY AND
INTEGRITY AND PEOPLE WILL BE
WATCHING ON HOW YOU DEAL WITH
THIS ISSUE AND HOW YOU TREAT
OTHER PEOPLE.
AND I THINK THAT’S REALLY
IMPORTANT.
YOU KNOW, LIA IS YOUNG.
JUST GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE.
AND I THINK IN A LOT OF WAYS
DONE A GOOD JOB BUT IN OTHER
WAYS IT’S BEEN DIFFICULT
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, SHE HAS BEEN
OUT FOR HER HAPPINESS BUT THE
HAPPINESS OF A LOT OF OTHER
PEOPLE HAS NOT REALLY BEEN
CONSIDERED.
>> Will: RIGHT.
>> SO, YEAH.
AND SO IT’S NOT AN EASY THING TO
GO THROUGH AND TO BE HONEST WITH
YOU, THERE IS NO ONE ANSWER, I
DON’T THINK THERE IS A RIGHT
ANSWER RIGHT NOW.
I’M INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT’S
GOING TO HAPPEN NOW THAT SHE HAS
SAID SHE IS GOING TO LOOK AT
TRYING TO GO TO THE OLYMPICS.
>> Will: RIGHT.
>> THE OLYMPIC RULES ARE A
LITTLE DIFFERENT.
AND, LET’S JUST SEE WHAT SHE
DOES?
IT WILL BE KIND OF INTERESTING
TO WATCH. >> Will: KAITLIN, I’M GLAD WE
>> Will: KAITLIN, I’M GLAD WE
WORKED THROUGH THE TEBLEG THANK
YOU FOR GETTING UP EARLY THIS