DESANTIS. WE’LL TALK WITH HIM IN JUST A QUN I’M SURE YOU HAVE HEARD THE
PHRASE CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND
HEARD THE HEATED DEBATE OVER IT,
MAYBE EVEN TAKEN PART IN THAT
DEBATE.
WELL THIS MORNING WE WANT A
COOLER DISCUSSION OF CRITICAL
RACE THEORY WITH DR. MAR DIN
DUNN, THE RETIRED CHAIRMAN OF
THE PSYCHOLOGY DEPARTMENT AT FIU
AND A WRITER OF NOTE.
HE IN FACT IS THE AUTHOR OF THIS
FINE BOOK, A HISTORY OF FLOOR IT
DA THROUGH BLACK EYES.
HE RECENTLY PUBLISHED AN OP ED
IN THE "MIAMI HERALD" THAT SAID
CRITICAL RACE THEORY SHOULD BE
TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS, QUOTE,
BECAUSE THE VICTIMS DESERVE AT
LEAST THAT MUCH RESPECT AND
BECAUSE THE TRUTH MUST BE TAUGHT
WHOEVER IT MAKES FEEL
UNCOMFORTABLE.
MARVIN DUNN, GREAT TO YOU HAVE
ON THE PROGRAM.
HOW ARE YOU, MY FRIEND.
>> I’M VERY WELL, I HOPE YOU ARE
AS WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING
ME.
>> I’M DELIGHTED TO HAVE YOU.
AND I APPRECIATE AND RESPECT
YOUR WORK IN THIS FINE BOOK.
AND YOUR OP ED SO GIVE ME YOUR
BASIS, BASIC THESIS, MARVIN, WHY
SHOULD CRITICAL RACE THEORY BE
TAUGHT ESPECIALLY IF AS THE
GOVERNOR SAYS, THAT AMOUNTS TO
STATE-SPONSOREDDED RACISM.
>> WELL, IT SHOULD BE TAUGHT
BECAUSE IT’S TRUE.
CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS BASED ON
THE IDEA THAT AMERICAN
INSTITUTIONS WERE BUILT UPON
RACISM.
AND THAT’S TRUE.
EVEN THOUGH IT MAY MAKE SOME
PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE, IT IS
TRUE.
NOW DOES THAT MEAN THAT PEOPLE
TODAY SHOULD FEEL GUILTY BECAUSE
OF THAT.
CERTAINLY NOT.
BUT WE HAVE TO FIRST RECOGNIZE
THAT OUR COUNTRY COULD NOT HAVE
EVOLVED AS IT DID WITHOUT RACE
BEING A MAJOR FACTOR IN MANY OF
THE INSTITUTIONS THAT WE
DEVELOPED.
THE GOVERNOR IS RUNNING FOR
PRESIDENT.
AND EVERYTHING COMING OUT OF HIS
MOUTH SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD FROM
THAT CONTEXT.
SHOW THE PUBLIC-- MANAGED TO
PLAY THE RACE CARD.
-- AND THAT IS WHAT IS
HAPPENING.
DESANTIS-- THE THE CRITICAL RACE
CARD WAS PLAYED, I THINK BETWEEN
NOW AND-- IT TO THE ELECTIONS--
THEY WILL PLAY THE
CRITICAL RACE CARD AGAIN AND
AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR THE PURPOSE
OF THREATENING AND STAMPEDING
WHITE PEOPLE INTO THEIR CORNER.
LISTEN, I CAN’T THINK OF A
SINGLE INSTITUTION, MICHAEL, IN
OUR COUNTRY THAT DOES NOT HAVE A
LEGACY OF RACISM.
SO WE NEED TO TEACH THESE
THINGS, BUT NOT TO MAKE WHITE
CHILDREN FEEL GUILTY.
GUILT IS NOT PART OF IT.
BUT THE OF TEACH HISTORY AS IT
HAPPENED WITHOUT MAKING ANYBODY
FEEL BAD.
I DON’T KNOW HOW YOU TEACH, FOR
EXAMPLE, THE HOLOCAUST WITHOUT
PEOPLE LISTENING TO THAT STORY,
FEELING BADLY.
OR WITHOUT ABOUT SLAVERY.
OR ABOUT THE EXTINCTION OF THE
AMERICAN INDIANS, ALMOST, THESE
THINGS ARE DIFFICULT TO TALK
ABOUT, PEOPLE MAY FEEL BADLY
ABOUT IT, BUT THAT IS NO REASON
NOT TO TEACH IT.
>> NOT TO PUT IT BEFORE KIDS.
AND YOU SAID IN YOUR OP ED PIECE
DOBILITY THINK THAT KIDS CAN’T
HANDLE THE TRUTH.
PART OF WHAT THE GOVERNOR AND
OTHERS ARE SAYING OH, WE CAN’T
TELL THEM ABOUT THESE UGLY
INCIDENTS IN OUR PAST, FACTUAL
AS THEY ARE, BECAUSE THEY’RE
GOING TO BE DISTURBED, THEY’RE
GOING TO BE SAD, THEY’RE GOING
TO BE DEPRESSED.
>> AS THE GOVERNOR BEEN ON
TIKTOK, THE THINGS KIDS HAVE
ACCESS TO THE INFORMATION KIDS
TODAY HAVE ACCESS TO, THERE IS
NO LIMITING WHAT KIDS CAN NOW
LEARN.
>> YEAH.
>> THIS IS NOT GOING TO INJURE
OUR STUDENTS T IS GOING TO
ENHANCE THEIR ABILITY TO RELATE
TO EACH OTHER.
>> YOU ARE SPEAKING AS A
CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST AS WELL.
MARVIN, IF I MAY, AND BY THE
WAY, I HAVE ONLY KNOWN YOU FOR
35 YEARS AND THAT’S WHY WE ARE
USING FIRST NAMES HERE, WE
INVITE GOVERNOR DESANTIS EVERY
WEEK TO BE ON THIS PROGRAM.
AND HE ALWAYS FINDS A REASON NOT
TO DO IT.
BUT ON THURSDAY HE GAVE THIS
NEWS CONFERENCE WHERE HE
ANNOUNCEDDED THAT WOKE BILL,
STOP WOKE WHICH WILL ALLOW
PARENTS TO, IN FACT, SUE A
SCHOOL MAYBE A TEACHER IF THEY
BELIEVE THEIR CHILD HAS BEEN
TAUGHT CRITICAL RACE THEORY.
WE WANT TO GIVE THE GOVERNOR A
CHANCE TO BE HEARD.
SO HERE IS PART OF WHAT HE SAID
ON THURSDAY, TAKE A LISTEN.
>> THIS HAS BECOME A COTTAGE
INDUSTRY, CRT.
THERE ARE PEOPLE MAKING HUGE
AMOUNTS OF MONEY, THEY BASICALLY
WILL GET TENS OF THOUSANDS OF
DOLLARS TO GO IN AND DO A
TRAINING, SOMETIMES AT SCHOOL,
SOMETIMES AT BUSINESSES, YOU
KNOW, BASICALLY SAYING LIKE
OKAY, PAY ME $50,000 TO I CAN
TEACH YOUR EMPLOYEESES HOW
RACIST CAPITALISM IS OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I’M JUST THINKING TO MYSELF, YOU
SHOULDN’T BE CHARGING A KING’S
RANSOM TO DO THAT.
YOU DON’T-- YOU DON’T COMPLAIN
ABOUT CAPITALISM WHEN ARE YOU
LINING YOUR OWN POCKET T IS JUST
WHEN OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING
WELL.
BUT THE ISSUE IS YOU HAVE THESE
WHOLE COTTAGE INDUSTRY OF THESE
CONSULTANTS THAT WILL COME AND
GO INTO A SCHOOL DISTRICT OR GO
TO A BUSINESS OR GO TO COLLEGES
AND UNIVERSITIES AND THEY BRING
A LOT OF THIS INTO THOSE
INSTITUTIONS AND THEY CALL IT
EQUITY.
>> BOY, MARVIN, I THINK THE
GOVERNOR IS TALKING ABOUT YOU
KNOW, THE SENSE TIIZATION
CLASSES WHERE PEOPLE GO INTO A
SETTING WHERE THERE HAS BEEN
INSTITUTIONAL RACISM AND THEY
TRY AND TELL PEOPLE YOU’VE GOT
IT TO BE MORE SENSITIVE IT TO
PEOPLE OF OTHER RACES,
ETHNICITIES.
AND HE IS SAYING THAT IS A
COTTAGE INDUSTRY WHAT DO YOU
SAY.
>> IT IS AN ARGUMENT GENSZ
PEOPLE BEING WOKE.
WHAT WOULD DESANTIS PREFER,-- I
WOULD WELCOME AND I WOULD HOPE
THAT MANY INSTITUTIONS AND
BUSINESSES IN PARTICULAR WELCOME
FOR PEOPLE TO COME IN AND HELP
THEIR CONSTITUENTS, THEIR
STUDENTSES, THEIR EMPLOYEES
UNDERSTAND OUR RACIAL HISTORY,
NOT TO MAKE ANYBODY FEEL GUILTY
BUT TO HELP THE THE INSTITUTIONS
BECOME POR RESPONSIBLE AND
SENSITIVE TO THE HISTORIES AND
HOW THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN
CARRIED FORWARD.
ONE EXAMPLE IS WHEN A SCHOOL WAS
DESEGREGATED IN DADE COUNTY ALL
THE THE BLACK HIGH SCHOOLS, AND
WE HAD FOUR AT THE TIME, WERE
TURNED INTO MIDDLE SCHOOLS, NO
WHITE SCHOOLS WERE TURNED INTO
MIDDLE SCHOOLSES, KIDS FROM
BOOKER T HAD TO BE BUSSED TO
MIAMI BEACH, THAT IS
INSTITUTIONAL RACISM.
THESE KIDS BEING PENALIZED IN
TERMS OF THEIR POSITION, THEIR
EDUCATIONAL ATTAINMENT AND
PERFORMANCE.
SO WHETHER IT IS AN INSTITUTION,
SCHOOL SYSTEM OR POLICE
DEPARTMENT, THAT THEY HAVE DONE
THAT HAVE IMPACTED IN A NEGATIVE
WAY MINORITY COMMUNITIES, NOT TO
MAKE IT THAT THEY HAVE TO BE
GUILTY ABOUT IT BUT MAKE
CORRECTION ZS WHERE YOU CAN MAKE
CORRECTIONS AND IMPROVE THINGS
WHERE YOU CAN MAKE, THE GOVERNOR
SUNNING ARE FOR PRESIDENT AND
THIS IS THE KIND OF TONE WE WILL
HEAR FROM A NUMBER OF
REPUBLICANS GOING FORWARD T IS
VERY DISAPPOINTING, VERY, VERY
DISAPPOINTING.
>> WELL, THIS IS PART OF HIS
OFFENSIVE IN THE CULTURE WARS.
AND IT SPEAKS TO HIS POLITICAL
BASE.
YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
I LEARNED THAT WE ALL LEARNED
READING YOUR OP ED IN NOVEMBER
IN THE HERALD IS THAT IN THE
1920S, THREE AFTER
CAN-- AFRICAN-AMERICANS WERE
LYNCHED IN SOUTH MIAMI DADE
COUNTY.
WILLIE GRAY I SIMMONS, JB HARES
IS AND MARY KOWSINS, AND YOU
WROTE THAT YOU AND THE HISTORIAN
JEAN TENNEY WHOM I ALSO KNOW ARE
TRYING TO ERECT A MARKER TO
REMEMBER THEM AND THEIR LIVES,
HOW IS THAT GOING?
>> IT IS GOING VERY WELL, AS A
MATTER OF FACT, JUST-- THE MIAMI
DADE MAYOR HAS SIGNED ON TO
HELPING THIS HAPPEN, WE ARE IN
THE PROCESS OF LOOKING AT ALSO
PUTTING IN A MARKER FOR THE
McDUFFEY, THE SITE WHERE
ARTHUR McDUFFEY WAS KILLED.
THE COUNTY IS MOVING I THINK IN
THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND I THINK
THE CITY OF MIAMI AS WELL
TOWARDS MEMORIALIZING THESE
PLACES AND THESE EVENTS SO
PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND THAT THESE
THINGS HAPPEN.
UNTIL THIS ORGANIZATION THAT MI
ASSOCIATED WITH CALLED TEAR
BECAME INVOLVED, VERY FEW PEOPLE
IN DADE COUNTY KNEW THAT WE HAD
A LYNCHING MUST LESS THREE OF
THEM IN OUR COMMUNITY.
SO WE’RE TRYING TO TELL THESE
STORIES, AND IT IS MOVING IN THE
RIGHT DIRECTION THANKS TO THE
MAYOR.
>> WE SHOULD POINT OUT THAT
CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS NOT TALK
IN ANY PUBLIC SCHOOL NTION THE
STAIFT TBLOR DA, SO PASSING A
LAW TO BAN IT FROM BEING TAUGHT
IS REALLY KIND OF REDUNDANT.
I MEAN THERE IS NO NEED TO PASS
SUCH A LAW.
AND EVEN ONE COULD SAY PASSING A
LAW ALLOWING PARENTS TO SUE, YOU
KNOW, IF THEY BELIEVE IT’S BEEN
TAUGHT, I MEAN FOR EXAMPLE, IF A
TEACHER WANTED TO TALK ABOUT
BLACK LIVES MATTER, COULD A
PARENT THEN GO AHEAD AND SAY
WELL GEE, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE
TEACHING CRITICAL RACE THEORY.
>> THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WILL
HAPPEN.
AND IT WILL THROW A MONKEY
WRENCH INTO OUR EDUCATION
SYSTEM.
I GUESS IT IS BASED ON THE SAME
AS TURNING IN PEOPLE WHO ARE
AIDING SOMEONE TO GET AN
ABORTION.
THAT IS NOW THE NEW THING AMONG
REPUBLICANS, IT WILL BE A
DISASTROUS THING IF IT HAPPENS.
I AM HOPING IT DOES NOT COME TO
BE.
IT IS WITHIN OF THE WORST THINGS
DESANTIS HAS SAID, THROWING THIS
KIND OF A-- AND A NUMBER WILL GO
POR IT, BUT SOME DISTRICTS MAY
ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN.
IT WOULD BE A VERY.
>> MARVIN DUNN T IS A PLEASURE
TO SEE YOU AGAIN TO SPEAK WITH
YOU, THANK YOU FOR ALL THE
MANIED GOOD THINGS YOU HAVE DONE
AT FIU AND FOR OUR COMMUNITY
OVER THE YEARS, MERRY CHRISTMAS.
>> ONE OTHER THING IF I MIGHT.
>> YES.
>> I SET UP MY OWN WEB PAGE,
DUNN HISTORY.COM, TO TELL THESE
DIFFICULT STORIES THAT OUR
TEACHERS MAY NOT BE ALLOWED TO
TELL.
I AM PUTTING MY LEGACY ON THAT
SITE FOR TEACHERS AND STUDENTS
AND THE PUBLIC, AND THANK YOU,