>> Stephen: WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY, TO THIS FINE FRIDAY
HERE AT "THE LATE SHOW"."
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MY FIRST GUEST IS AN INVESTIGATIVE
JOURNALIST WHOSE REPORTING AT "THE NEW YORKER" HELPED SHAPE
THE CONVERSATION ABOUT SEXUAL HARASSMENT.
PLEASE WELCOME RONAN FARROW.
♪
>> HOW ARE YOU?
>> Stephen: NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN
>> LOVELY TO SEE YOU >> Stephen: NOW, FOR THE
PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO MAY NOT KNOW, YOU WORKED ON A STORY
ABOUT HARVEY WEINSTEIN AND THE TREATMENT OF WOMEN IN HIS ORBIT
FOR HOW LONG?
>> MORE THAN 10 MONTHS >> Stephen: 10 MONTHS.
AND IT WAS PUBLISHED IN THE OCTOBER 23 EDITION OF "THE NEW
YORKER" RIGHT HERE.
AND THIS WAS JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS AFTER "THE NEW YORK TIMES
TIMES--" JODI KANTOR, PUBLISHED THEIR EXPOSE OF WEINSTEIN
>> EXCELLENT REPORTING >> Stephen: NOW IT HAS BECOME
A NATIONAL CONVERSATION >> THAT'S RIGHT
>> Stephen: ABOUT SEXUAL ABUSE AND THE ABUSE OF POWER AND SWUL
CONTEXT, OF POWERFUL MEN AGAINST WOMEN AND OTHER MEN.
DID YOU THINK AHEAD OF TIME WHEN YOU WERE WORKING ON THIS, THAT
IT WOULD EXTEND BEYOND THE WEINSTEIN STORY?
>> YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN ASKED THIS QUESTION A LOT, AND THE
ANSWER IS YOU HEAR AN N.Y.P.D.
RECORDING OF A GUY OF THAT PROFILE ADMITTING TO SEXUAL
ASSAULT.
YOU KNOW VERY QUICKLY IT'S GOING TO BE A SIGNIFICANT STORY.
BUT THAT SAID, THIS MOVEMENT OF THE CASCADE OF WOMEN IN
GYMNASTICS, WOMEN IN ANIMATION, WOMEN IN EVERY INDUSTRY COMING
FORWARD AND SAYING, "ENOUGH," THAT IS SOMETHING I NEVER COULD
HAVE COUNT ON >> Stephen: NOW, WHEN YOU WERE
WORKING ON THE STORY, WEINSTEIN IS A VERY POWERFUL MAN IN THE
ENTERTAINMENT, IN THE MEDIA WORLD IN GENERAL, AND HE WAS NOT
AFRAID TO USE HIS POWER-- NOT JUST IN THESE SEXUAL SITUATIONS.
ONE OF THE FEW THINGS I KNEW ABOUT HARVEY WERE BOOTSTOMPING
REPORTER ON, YOU KNOW, OUTSIDE OF A PREMIERE BECAUSE HE ASKED
AN ACTRESS THE WRONG QUESTION, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND HE WAS KNOWN FOR THIS SORT OF MONSTROUS BEHAVIOR.
DID YOU HAVE FRIENDS, YOU KNOW, AND COLLEAGUES WARN YOU OFF AND
SAY, "DON'T DO THIS.
AFTER NOT GOING TO BE WORTH IT FOR YOU TO DO THIS STORY."
>> YEAH, LOOK, THERE WERE MULTIPLE MOMENTS WHEN PEOPLE
AROUND ME WOULD SIT ME DOWN AND SAY, LOOK, ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT
TO KEEP GOING WITH THIS."
THERE WAS A LOT OF PRESSURE AND IT WAS NOT JUST DIRECTED AT ME.
IT WAS DIRECTED AT A LOT OF REPORTER GLRPZ YOU THREATENED BY
WEINSTEIN HIMSELF.
>> I WAS THREATENED BY HIS LAWYER AND INTERMEDIARIES DID A
LOT OF THREATENING AND MENACING STATEMENTS
>> Stephen: LIKE, "YOU'LL NEVER WORK AGAIN" AND THAT KIND
OF STUFF >> I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO
PRIVATE COMMUNICATION, BUT, YEAH, MENACING STUFF.
YOU HEARD OF HOW HE BEHAVES.
YOU GET THE IDEA.
FUNDAMENTALLY IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT ON THE EARLY REPORTING
ON THIS THIS WAS A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE.
YOU CAN'T STOP GOING IF YOU HAVE EVIDENCE THAT THERE'S MAYBE AN
ONGOING PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR THAT'S ENDANGERING PEOPLE
( APPLAUSE ) >> YES.
CHEER FOR THE WOMEN WHO TALKED, YOU KNOW
>> Stephen: MANY PEOPLE HAVE SAID, "LISTEN, IF YOU'RE IN
HOLLYWOOD, YOU KNEW THAT HE DID THIS."
BUT COULD IT BE THAT-- AND BECAUSE THERE WAS SUCH A FEAR OF
REPRISAL, THAT IT DID NOT BUBBLE UP, YOU KNOW, TO THE PUBLIC
CONSCIOUSNESS, JUST BECAUSE THE PRESSURE WAS SO GREAT NOT TO
FACE IT?
>> TREMENDOUS PRESSURE, A VAST MACHINE OF LEGAL INSTRUMENT,
P.R. INSTRUMENTS THAT WOMAN AFTER WOMAN TALKED ABOUT BEING
CHALLENGED BY AS THEY SOUGHT TO COME FORWARD
>> Stephen: NONDISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS.
>> NONDISCLOSER AGREEMENTS A HUGE PART OF IT AND AN AREA OF
LAW THAT IS NOW BEING LOOKED AT, SAYING THERE SHOULD BE
RESTRICTIONS ON ALLOWING PEOPLE TO PURCHASE SILENCE ON SEXUAL
ASSAULT
>> Stephen: I AGREE, IT'S RIDICULOUS.
IT'S ANTI-FIRST AMENDMENT >> YOU KNOW, THE THING THAT WAS
STRIKE TO ME, TOO, THERE WAS THIS PARTICULARLY UGLY AND
POWERFUL MACHINE AIMED AT SECURING SILENCE.
BUT, ALSO, THERE'S A WHOLE RANGE OF REASONS YES SEXUAL ASSAULT
SURVIVORS DON'T COME FORWARD IN EVERY WALK OF LIFE, YOU KNOW,
WHETHER A WOMAN IN A BLUE-COLLAR JOB OR A WOMAN IN HOLLYWOOD.
THERE ARE THE SAME PROFOUNDLY PERSONAL REASONS WHY IT IS
SOMETIMES ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO COME FORWARD, YOU KNOW
THEY FEAR CAREER REPERCUSSIONS, THEY FEAR WHAT THEIR FAMILIES
WILL THINK.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS MOST INSPIRING TO ME WAS AFTER
HEARING ABOUT THIS WALL OF FRIENDS AND LOVED ONES SAYING,
"DON'T TALK," HEARING ABOUT THE EXCEPTIONS AND HOW POWERFUL
THOSE WERE.
WHEN SOMEONE SAID, "ACTUALLY, YOU CAN DO THIS AND THAT CAN BE
HEALING AND THAT CAN HELP OTHERS."
>> Stephen: YOU WERE DOING THIS ORIGINALLY FOR NBC.
AND THEY DIDN'T WANT TO BROADCAST THE REPORT THAT YOU
HAD COME UP WITH, SO YOU TOOK IT TO "THE NEW YORKER."
HOW MUCH SOONER WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THIS IF
NBC HAD BROADCAST?
WHEN WAS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE ON?
>> YOU KNOW, LOOK, I'VE BEEN WORKING ON THE STORY FOR A LONG
TIME.
A LOT OF EXPLOSIVE THINGS WERE EARLY IN THE REPORTING PROCESS.
THERE MAY BE MORE TO SAY ABOUT THE NBC PIECE OF THIS WITH TIME.
RIGHT NOW, WE'RE IN THIS MOMENT WHERE THIS FLOOD OF WOMEN IS
STILL, YOU KNOW, VERY MUCH IN PROGRESS.
PEOPLE ARE COMING FORWARD, AND THEY'RE DOING A BRAVE THING, AND
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP THE FOCUS ON THEM
>> Stephen: SO JULY...
( LAUGHTER ) >> YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT JUST A
LINE.
I'M LEARY OF, YOU KNOW, NOBODY WANTS TO BECOME THE STORY WHEN
YOU'RE A REPORTER >> Stephen: I UNDERSTAND.
BUT IT IS PART OF THE STORY-- PART OF THIS STORY IS THE STORY
NOT BEING TOLD FOR SO LONG AND YOU EXPERIENCED THE STORY NOT
BEING TOLD.
AND THERE MAY BE-- WHAT WAS THE REASON YOU WERE GIVEN?
HOW ABOUT THAT >> LOOK, HERE'S WHAT I WOULD SAY
ON THIS-- >> Stephen: WERE YOU GIVEN ANY
REASON?
>> HE'S A TOUGH INTERVIEWER >> Stephen: IT JUST-- IT
JUST-- >> YOU WOULD MAKE A FINE
INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, STEPHEN >> Stephen: THANKS VERY MUCH.
THANKS VERY MUCH >> HERE'S WHAT I WOULD SAY ON
THAT, IT'S VERY CLEAR WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS STORY AND HOW LONG
IT STAYED QUIET THAT IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE THAT ANY NEWS
ORGANIZATION THAT HAS DAMNING EVIDENCE OF ONGOING CRIMINAL
ACTIVITY NEEDS TO RUN THAT, NEEDS TO INVESTIGATE IT AND
INTERROGATE IT AND RUN IT AND THAT'S WHAT I'LL SAY ABOUT
THAT
>> Stephen: OKAY.
THOUGH THIS IS A MOMENT WHERE PEOPLE ARE EMBRACING OPENNESS
AND THE COURAGE OF THESE WOMEN, DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW IF ANY OF
THESE WOMEN ARE-- YOU DON'T HAVE TO NAME NAMES-- ARE FACING ANY
PRICE FOR WHAT THEY'VE DONE ALREADY?
>> YEAH, LOOK, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SEARCH FAR.
THAT'S ALL OUT THERE IN THE PUBLIC.
ASIA ARGENTO IS AN ACTRESS WHO TOLD A BRAVISTIC NOT ONLY
BECAUSE THERE IS A BRUTAL ALLEGATION, BUT SHE WENT BACK
AFTERWARDS, AS SEXUAL ASSAULT SURVIVORS OFTEN DO.
THERE ARE SEXUAL ASSAULTS BY BOSSES AND SPOUSES AND PEOPLE
YOU'RE CLOSED TO AND ENMESHED IN YOUR CAREER AND SHE WENT BACK
AND SHE TOLD ALL OF THAT IN ALL ITS COMPLEXITY.
I ADMIRE THAT.
SHE HAS BEEN RUN OUT OF HER NATIVE COUNTRY ITALY AND THE CAN
CONSERVATIVE PRESS THERE -- >> Stephen: WHY?
>> BECAUSE COMMENTATORS SAYING SHE WAS ASKING FOR IT.
THIS WAS HER FAULT, JUST SHAMING >> Stephen: WELL, NOW, YOU'VE
DONE A SECOND ARTICLE, AND I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A THIRD
ARTICLE.
CAN YOU TELL US ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT PART OF THE STORY HASN'T
BEEN TOLD YET?
>> LOOK -- >> Stephen: OR FROM WHAT
YOU'VE INVESTIGATED?
>> YEAH, THIS MACHINE THAT WAS SO INSTRUMENTAL IN KEEPING THIS
QUIET AS LONG AS IT WAS QUIET-- AND, LOOK, PEOPLE HAVE ASKED,
"HOW COULD THIS MANY ALLEGATIONS HAVE STAYED UNDER COVER THIS
LONG?" I THINK THERE'S MUCH MORE TO BE
SAID ABOUT JUST HOW FAR THAT WENT
>> Stephen: YOU MEAN, THE PEOPLE WHO AIDED AND ABETTED IT,
HOW THIS WAS SORT OF INSTITUTIONALIZED IN HOLLYWOOD?
>> IN WAYS THAT, HONESTLY, I DIDN'T EVEN FATHOM GOING INTO
THIS.
AND THAT'S NOT JUST HOLLYWOOD, STEPHEN.
THAT'S PEOPLE WITH POWER AND MONEY IN THIS COUNTRY AND THE
WAY THEY YIELD IT IN EVERY INDUSTRY
>> Stephen: WELL, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST POWERFUL HOLLYWOOD MAN
THAT YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT SEXUALLY ABUSING PEOPLE.
YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT WOODY ALLEN FOR YEARS.
AND THOSE ACCUSATION, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL-- AND I DON'T KNOW
MR. ALLEN-- HAVE BEEN LIKE PENNIES AGAINST A BATTLESHIP,
NOTHING, THERE'S BEEN NO EFFECT.
>> A BATTLESHIP THAT HAS BEEN IN THERAPY FOR MANY, MANY YEARS
>> Stephen: OKAY, WOODY ALLEN HAS DENIED THESE ALLEGATIONS
>> DENIED, NOT CONVICTED >> Stephen: OKAY, DO YOU THINK
THAT THIS CONVERSATION THAT YOU AND OTHERS HAVE HELPED SPARKED
ABOUT HARVEY WEINSTEIN, A BEAUTIFUL UNASSAILABLE MAN WILL
IN SOME WAY CHANGE THE CONVERSATION THAT WE'D ALLEN HAS
TO FACE?
>> LOOK, THERE WAS NO DIRECT LINK IN THE SENSE THAT THERE WAS
SOME PERSONAL CONNECTION THERE THAT MOTIVATED ME TO LOOK AT
THIS STORY.
IT WAS AN ASSIGNMENT I RECEIVED, AND I ACTUALLY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT
IT UNTIL THEN >> Stephen: OKAY
>> WHAT WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN LINKING THESE TWO THINGS AND
HELPING DRIVE ME DURING THIS STORY WAS SEXUAL ASSAULT WAS AN
ISSUE THAT HAD TOUCHED MY FAMILY, YOU KNOW
I UNDERSTOOD OVER TIME THE IMPORTANCE OF CONFRONTING IT ON
HONESTLY, AND THE IMPORTANCE OF TOUGH, METICULOUS REPORTING IN
EXPOSING THESE KINDS OF CRIMES.
IN MY CASE, I WAS, FOR MANY YEARS, ONE OF THE PEOPLE AROUND
THE VICTIM OF SEXUAL ASSAULT SAYING, "WHY BOTHER COMING
FORWARD MORE?
WHAT WILL IT ACHIEVE?
IT WILL JUST BRING SHAME AND TROUBLE AND IT'S A POWERFUL
GUY?" AND IT WAS A LONG PROCESS OF MY
REALIZING, YOU KNOW, NO, THE FACT THAT SHE WANTS TO SPEAK IS
SOMETHING IMPORTANT ETHICALLY, AND I AS A REPORTER, TOO,
WHETHER YOU'RE LOOKING AT BILL COSBY OR ROGER AILES OR HARVEY
WEINSTEIN, HAVE TO GET TOUGHER.
WE ALL HAVE TO GET TOUGHER
>> Stephen: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
I LOOK FORWARD TO THE NEXT ARTICLE.
RONAN FARROW, EVERYBODY.
WHEN WE COME BACK, THE STAR OF MARVEL'S LATEST MOVIE, IT'S AN
EXCLUSIVE, DON'T GO ANYWHERE.