for the first time since the war in
ukraine began 11 weeks ago a russian
soldier is being tried for war crimes
the 21 year old tank commander seen here
is the first russian set to stand trial
ukrainian officials are accusing the
soldier of shooting and killing an
unarmed 62 year old civilian back in
february according to ukraine's
prosecutor general the russian soldier
is charged with violating quote the laws
and customs of war combined with
premeditated murder the soldier could
face life in prison if he is found
guilty his attorney tells nbc news that
the russian soldier asked for a trial by
judge as opposed to a jury and did not
enter a plea the lawyer also says that
he cannot comment on whether the soldier
had admitted any guilt or if he was
cooperating with the investigation
according to the lawyer the soldier
surrendered two ukrainian forces
this is just the start of ukraine's
attempts to prosecute russian war crimes
ukraine's prosecutor general says her
office is investigating more than 10
000 war crimes involving more than 600
suspects which include russian soldiers
and government officials now that
russian forces have retreated from kiev
the fog of war is starting to fade in
the towns and suburbs near ukraine's
capital ukrainians are left to pick
through the rubble and excavate the
remains of their loved ones they're
finding dead bodies of civilians the
elderly women men and children in mass
graves and in the streets and inside
people's backyards and even in those
trying circumstances ukraine's
prosecutors and investigators are going
to work they're collecting the evidence
documenting fact by fact what has
happened to these victims in order to
build a case ukrainians are showing the
world that accountability for what
happens on the battlefield matters to
them
joining me now is robert goldman he's a
professor at american university's
washington college of law he's the
faculty director of the school's war
crimes research office professor thank
you so much for being here today i do
want to start off by getting your take
on the significance of ukraine trying a
russian soldier for war crimes on
ukrainian soil is that a typical event
versus maybe having it occur at the
hague for example
uh it's a good question and it is
somewhat unusual particularly given the
circumstances that is
you have an ongoing armed conflict
generally
uh these kinds of trials will occur
after a a conflict is over a good
example where nuremberg after the
unconditional surrender
of both uh the german and then in the
pacific the japanese uh forces we
conducted war crimes trials in the case
of the former yugoslavia or the case of
rwanda after the fact there's certain
benefits to this
uh
that the evidence is fresh
the ukrainians are being assisted by top
human rights and law of war experts
from
from europe the evidence there's
videotape evidence in some cases as i
understand it
but there's some dangers
that uh are are lurking
uh the first is that he has to get a
trial that's in accordance not only with
the third geneva convention prisoner of
war convention uh but also under human
rights law so it presupposes an
independent and impartial court
what i've seen so far is at least
encouraging i don't think that the uh
ukrainians will do anything but play
this by the book
the danger lurking is this might
incentivize putin
uh to put urane uh ukrainian prisoners
of war on trial uh perhaps they may have
committed war crimes uh but uh one would
not put it by putin to fabricate charges
uh a trial by an independent and
impartial court by the russians
is simply not credible
but we know what the legal system is
when they don't kill political opponents
they have kangaroo trials to lock these
people up
professor my question would be then is
there some value
in having this trial occur then maybe at
the conclusion of the war we obviously
don't know when that may occur we don't
even know how to define it necessarily
so is it just a fundamental practical
reality that if the prosecutors want to
move forward with this case i'm a former
prosecutor i agree the evidence is fresh
if the memories are fresh if the
witnesses are willing to participate the
next pin are there do it now versus
waiting till later is there the risk
though that it's automatically going to
be deemed to be some type of um not
impartial result because it's happening
right now especially if it's a trial by
jury and that's not really a jury of
that man's peers
well
you make very valid points uh uh
as we've said uh uh and you have pointed
out that uh there is an advantage
because of
the contemporaneous nature of the
gathering eyewitness preservation of
forensics
which doesn't seem to be
the case so much here as i've read
different things where apparently he has
confessed
uh to his attorney
he waived the right to a jury trial
quite frankly i'm surprised this does
not take taking place before a military
tribunal which is the normal thing uh
with a with a prisoner of war
the benefit that this might have is look
we're getting reports every day the
united nations human rights high
commissioner
recently came out and said that they've
documented no less than
1 000
very suspicious uh deaths of civilians
that may amount to be
war crimes and systematic attacks in
others crimes against humanity
it kind of bolsters ukraine's case that
these things are taking place uh
it does have the risk in the eyes of
some people that this may be
you can't say victor's justice because
the the armed conflict is ongoing
uh but this could be a conflict as we
all know that could be protracted in
time indeed we may and i would expect
frankly we're going to see a situation
like on the korean peninsula with no
clear-cut winner
uh
and then that drags that out and then
you have all the negative effects of
recollection
collection of forensics etc etc and it
may also have an effect of
saying to russian troops uh
if you commit atrocity crimes
uh we're going to find you and we're
going to try you so it may have some
deterrent effect we'll have to see
professor i wish we had more time
because i would love to follow up with
you so i i hope that you'll come back
and we could do a little bit more
analysis maybe um after the trial is
over um and we could see exactly what
the result is but professor robert
goldman thank you so much for being here
delighted thank you
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