*Extra mythology intro*
Thank you all for joining me for Myths Matter.
You'll all have to bear with me this week because
I've been on the road for six weeks straight and I am exhausted.
But I want to come on here and talk to you about the most recent two episodes we've done.
these Nart Sagas and the Russian Myths because
There's some very important, very interesting things happening here.
Underneath these myths. Some. Historical things that are happening,
not so much about the time that these myths are from, but
Much closer to the present because
these Nart sagas are from a place called the Northern Caucasus.
If you don't know where the Northern Caucuses are, they're the southern extreme of Russia,
but while they're currently controlled by Russia,
there's a lot of people living there who don't think they should be
This has always been a point of contention, a place of contention for the Russians.
From the Russian Empire to the USSR to the modern Russian state,
Why is this? Well because if you look at that area
Grozny, the capital of Chechnya in the Northern Caucasus for example,
if you just look at it, it's closer to Tehran than it is to Moscow.
That area inherits a lot from Iranian-Persian culture.
If you look at these Nart Sagas if you look at a lot of Persian myths
You can see that these Nart Sagas borrow a lot and are heavily influenced by Iranian and Persian Mythology.
So, why did we put them with Russian mythology?
Well that's a long story but really our patrons voted on Russian mythology
I went to them and said hey,
"In researching Russian mythology I found something very interesting."
"I found these sagas coming from a part of Russia right now"
"That really feel like a different culture. Do you mind me talking about them?"
The patrons were very indulgent: "Yes absolutely let's do this."
Why? Because this mythology was suppressed; if you look at the history from the 19th-ish century,
if you look at the Tsarist state to the Soviet Union to modern-day, Russia,
These Nart Sagas, they were first translated and written down and recorded by Russian folklorists,
but then really, there have been some efforts, there have been a lot of efforts to,
make sure, that this isn't the mythology that gets spread
and we thought well, with our show since we have all of you watching it,
maybe we can amplify that voice.
Why have these been suppressed? Well, if you think about it,
this mythology emphasizes the difference between a lot of Russia and this particular area.
There's not a lot of Slavic influences on these myths.
The Nart sagas are much closer to all the things from Azerbaijan and Iran and that whole area.
So what it does is what mythology is really good at doing.
Establishing cultural base.
And it makes the people in this area feel like "We're different from the rest of Russia" In doing so, It really
hinders the Russian government's, whoever they may be at the time,
efforts to assimilate and control and make this area a permanent part of Russia.
And of course, they very much want to do that because amongst other things,
northern caucuses have access to the Black Sea
which has always been very very important to Russia and the Russian economy and Russian trade
Even today there's a lot of conflict in this area because of these cultural differences.
So regardless of whatever else before all these myths get lost,
like so many have as cultural assymulation happens,
regardless of whether not you think that cultural assymulation should or shouldn't happen,
and regardless of whether or not you think that more of us should share one culture,
keeping these myths alive is important.
Recognizing them, understanding the cultural traditions and the cultural backing
and not losing the stories of whole groups of people,
much less letting them be destroyed for political reasons
is very important.
So that's why we talked about these Nart Sages in a series on Russian Myth
Otherwise, there was no other place where they were going to fall.
It allowed us to have this conversation with you which I think is really interesting
and looking at the background for all these mythologies
and how we came to discover them is fascinating
which leads us to the next point
when looking into russian mythology
If you noticed the vampire and soldier the story that you get there very cool, right?
I was really excited to do that one, but
It's a lot more like folklore than it is mythology
Okay, so now we're gonna have to unpack that sentence.
I'm sure there's going to be a lot of debate about this in the comments.
I am NOT super concerned about that distinction
the best definition I've heard for it and the most academic definition I've heard for it;
Is that mythology has to do with the history of the gods and
Folklore is basically all the other tales that don't
By the history of the gods it just means that if you were to try and lay out a timeline
To give a history of the gods of a place
And at least hit all the major events in the lives of the gods
You would have to include these stories.
So for example the Iliad and the Odyssey
even though they're about human dudes; for the most part
are part of the mythology of Greece
Because the way the gods show up in those things you cannot lay out a history of the gods
without including the events of the Iliad and the Odyssey.
Okay, so Russia. Russia is a really really interesting case
Right in the 19th century is when folklore really became a thing.
It's even when the word was coined. Before that I think we called it: Popular antiquities?
You might have check me on that. I believe that to be the case.
Then people started getting interested in "We're Industrializing."
"We're losing a lot of this mythology. Let's look into it"
Which immediately got followed by "Hey Nationalism is now a thing. Let's start establishing a national culture"
So very often when you see mythology whether it is,
Scandinavian mythology or German mythology or even
British mythology, especially things like the King Arthur cycle.
Alot of these things became part of an effort to create a unified culture for a place
and give people a sense of long-term cultural unity
that they were all part of the same people with the same stories
in order to create what we call modern nation-states
We're moving from feudalism where people associate themselves with the thing that's obvious to associate yourself
the people immediately around you the little town or village you're in and maybe the guy who rules it.
And unfortunately that breaks down and we start getting this...
Well, fortunately that breaks down. But.
Unfortunately for mythology and folklore as that breaks down people are looking for something else to say
"Hey you're not just part of this village which are obviously part of you're part of this nation of people"
Who, a lot them are so far away you have nothing in common with them.
If you look at the 19th century, maybe you can't even really speak the same language
Even Italy if you went through the different majersive(?) Italy
A Person in the far north couldn't speak to a person in the far south completely.
Mythology got used to give people an idea that they had a shared culture
In doing so they're part of a nation and that that nation had some legitimacy
So what's happening with this Russian folklore?
Well, we're getting that. Because clearly "The Czar soldiers go and kicking around vampires"
"And you know what?" "You should like them"
"Because they kick around the vampires that are harming your village."
But more than that what's really interesting here is: this isn't mythology, this is folklore.
By the definition from I gave.
There's no gods. None of that stuff. Why?
Because Russia specifically was trying to convince Europe that it was a part of Europe.
What happens when you look into Russian mythology?
Russia was one of the last places parts of Europe to Christianize
That meant that when you look at its mythology it has very interesting pagan mythology,
but most of that lost and suppressed as well because the folklorists were trying...
Well at least the state with its efforts towards folklore and the people sponsoring:
the Tsar and that sort of thing were then sponsoring these folklorists
Wanted to create a unified culture that also appeared European and not something scary to Europeans
Like this weird Baba Yaga business and other things.
Weirdly Baba Yaga is actually one of the things that was not so outside of what was acceptable
And was so common in a lot of these these tales that we still get that.
But you clearly don't have any rival gods, right?
They've all been relegated to a place below the folklore of Russia.
So that's why you're getting a folklore tale here
Versus for example: Japan, we take these Japanese mythology and
We have had lots of heavy books of actual Mythology
Where it's the history of the gods and that was totally preserved and kept.
Why? Because the Emperor himself descends from that line, right?
So instead there the legitimacy of the state is reinforced by giving the mythology
rather than having something that the state fears
this idea that it will be seen as a... I mean, this is the thought at the time
this is not my saying this in any way,
but their fear they be seen as a
Backwards pagan nation at the eastern end of Europe.
And so it's really interesting. Looking at these stories
looking at the mythology and looking at the folklore
and seeing OK why, why are we inheriting these
because like everything these stories are amazing and they teach us about our culture
and they inform us about our history
They through teaching us about our culture, teach us how people thought about the events they were going through
But they also teach us about our history in a different way.
They teach us about our history by: What got preserved and what didn't. What got highlighted and what didn't.
So when we're looking at them, we always have to also ask ourselves
"the why" of these myths but "what were they trying to tell their contemporaries?"
Especially when you look at things like Brothers Grimm.
"What were the folklorists trying to tell their contemporaries?"
So I will leave you with that food for thought.
I think next week we're getting back to Japanese mythology.
So hopefully I'll see you then. And if you want to help choose the topics we cover in the future.
Come check out our patreon.
Alright everybody. I hope you all have a good week.
Take care everyone.
*Extra mythology outro*