JUDY WOODRUFF: And we now turn to the analysis of Capehart and Abernathy. That is Jonathan
Capehart and Gary Abernathy, both columnists for The Washington Post. David Brooks is away.
It's very good to see both of you on this Friday.
Jonathan, I want to start with some news that former Vice President Pence
made today. He made a speech. A lot of people were watching to see what he would say.
And he -- what caught our attention is, he said President Trump is wrong to say that he could
have overturned the results of the 2020 election. He said it's time to turn -- turn to the future.
What does this say about the state of the Republican Party, when you also have, what,
the Republican National Committee today censuring Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger,
the only Republicans working on the January
6 investigative committee? JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, Judy,
to me, it says that the Republican Party is still undergoing a huge identity crisis.
Former Vice President Mike Pence has been saying what he said today
in various forms over the last year with less heat than he did today. But saying flat out that
Donald Trump is wrong, and that he had -- and that Vice President -- then-Vice President Pence
had no ability, no power whatsoever to overturn the will of the American
people is the clearest break we have seen between the two.
And it says to me that the former vice president has decided: Whether I run for president or not,
I can't win over Donald Trump. I can't win over his people. And so right now the focus
is stay in the party and do everything I can to shore up that side of the party.
And it's that side of the party, Adam Kinzinger, Liz Cheney, both Republican members of Congress,
who today were censured by the national party, but that is the fight. It's the Pences,
the Cheneys, the Kinzingers, and I'm sure a whole lot of other unnamed folks
vs. Donald Trump and all of those people within the Republican Party who are taking it down a
very dangerous road, not just for the party, but for the country.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Gary Abernathy, an identity crisis, as Jonathan said?
GARY ABERNATHY: I agree with most of what Jonathan said. I think that that's right.
There's been a lot of talk lately about, what does the Republican Party stand for? And
I wrote a piece last week saying it doesn't really need to figure that out this year,
except that it needs to spend 2022 divorcing itself from Donald Trump slowly, but surely.
I think Pence -- I have always admired Pence for saying what he's always said.
And he said it again very strongly today. I think the party's wrong to try to discipline
Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger. I just think that's a mistake.
So I think that the party is slowly, but surely trying to -- there are more and more people. I
think -- I disagree with Jonathan on one thing. I think Pence does have a chance to peel away some
folks. I mean, people have to give Mike Pence a lot of credit for the role he played
in helping elect Donald Trump, in the successes that Trump had as president.
But, yes, there's no doubt the Republican Party is trying to figure out what it is and what
it's going to be going forward. And I think, as time goes by, it will come to the conclusion,
painfully for a lot of people, that it can be the party of Trumpism, but not with Trump.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But just quickly to both of you, so this -- Jonathan, this doesn't put
an end to questions about what the Republican Party is going to do with Donald Trump?
JONATHAN CAPEHART: Oh, no.
And the fact that there are still arguments over -- within the party over whether -- over what to
call the January 6 insurrection just goes to show, just in high relief, what this identity crisis is.
You have the Kinzingers, the Cheneys -- and the Cheneys in particular who are making it clear that
what happened on January 6 was an affront to the Constitution and an affront to American democracy,
and that a functioning national party should have no -- shouldn't give it any
quarter, should not give it any -- anyone who subscribes to that any comfort.
And the fact that we are even having this conversation
just goes to show how far gone the Republican Party is.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Gary Abernathy, turning to something else we were watching this past week,
a few weeks ago, President Biden nominated three economists to join
the Federal Reserve Board, and this at the same time there's so much attention
to who he may appoint to the Supreme Court to succeed Stephen -- Justice Stephen Breyer.
Of course, the president has said it will be a Black woman. He did appoint three economists.
We're going to remind you who they are. Sarah Bloom Raskin is one. Lisa Cook is another,
Philip Jefferson. Again, they're all economists with a string of credentials to their names.
But Republicans in the Senate, Gary, have gone after all three of them,
questioned their qualifications, and especially gone after Lisa Cook
and questioned whether she has the credentials to be a member of the Federal Reserve Board.
What does it say about the ability of a president to argue, I want diversity on the Federal Reserve?
GARY ABERNATHY: Well, I think it's OK to go question people.
These are high-profile positions. And it's fine to ask tough questions. I don't think that that
necessarily implies or insinuates anything, other than differences, political, ideological
differences, that Republicans tend to have with whoever President Biden is going to nominate.
But, Judy, I'd like to see us get back to the place where partisanship is OK when it comes to
when you win elections. When you win elections, you also win the right to do certain things.
You win the right to make appointments to boards and to the courts of people who you want.
And I'd like to see us get back to the day where the opposition party respects that and says,
even though that's not who we would appoint, that's not who I would like to see there,
I respect the fact that you have won the right to make the appointment of whoever you want.
And I'd like to see us get back to where we don't have to worry, gee, is this a 50/50 Senate
when it comes to approving appointments, because you respect the process, you respect
the fact that Joe Biden won this election, so he can make the appointments that he wants.
And I'd like to see -- when a Republican is president again someday, I'd like to see
Democrats say, we know you're going to appoint conservatives to these boards and to the courts,
but you know what, you won, we're going to respect that and we're going to vote for that person.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But, Jonathan, that's not where we are. We are watching just a lot
of criticism of these three nominees and, as we said, especially Lisa Cook.
JONATHAN CAPEHART: Yes.
Why is it, Judy, that whenever a person of color is nominated to one of these prominent positions,
the immediate first question is, are they qualified, or their qualifications are questioned,
when that person of color, in particularly Lisa Cook, are overwhelmingly qualified?
It is galling. And it is ridiculous. And these questions to start to morph from,
are they qualified to serve in these positions to questioning their humanity.
I mean, in Lisa Cook, we're talking about somebody with a BA from Spelman,
a BA from Oxford, a Ph.D. from the University of California at Berkeley, the Obama White
House Council of Economic Advisers. She's on the Federal Reserve board in Chicago.
I mean, this is someone who is eminently qualified. And yet, when we're talking about
someone's qualifications, it's all focused on her. And I don't think -- it is not coincidental that
she is Black. And it's not coincidental that she's also a Black woman who's being put through this.
And I just have to say, as an American, and certainly as an African American,
it pains me to see someone who worked so hard, who's given so much to the people
and the institutions she's worked with, but also to her country, to then have to sit before members
of the Senate who question who she is, what she's done, and what value she -- she brings.
How these folks, anyone who sits before these confirmation hearings, is able to sit through
that and not just lose it to defend themselves and defend where they come from and who they
are is a testament to why they should be confirmed to the positions that they have been nominated to.
JUDY WOODRUFF: The last thing I want to turn both of you to, and that is a subject
in the news this past week, rising violent crime in the country, especially homicide.
In New York City, Mayor Eric Adams had President Biden come and meet with him
and talk to him about what's going on and what to do about it.
Here is just an excerpt of what President Biden had to say when he was in New York City this week.
JOE BIDEN, President of the United States: Mayor Adams, you and I agree.
The answer is not to abandon our streets. That's not the answer.
The answer is to come together, police and communities building trust and making us
all safer. The answer is not to defund the police. It is to give you the tools,
the training, the funding to be partners, to be protectors, and community needs you.
JUDY WOODRUFF: How do you see, Gary, the -- how this discussion has evolved?
Because, after the death of George Floyd, a lot of conversation about the need for police reform.
Of course, Mayor Adams is coming at it from a different -- with a different
approach. Where are we headed on this -- on these issues -- on this issue?
GARY ABERNATHY: I thought President Biden said the right thing yesterday when he said,
we don't need to defund the police.
But I also thought it was kind of sad that he had to say it.
I think it's unfortunate when a president -- and presidents may rule here when it comes to this,
is setting the tone. And you need to say,
you know what? We support our police departments. When someone calls 911, we want someone to come.
And the fact that there were members of his party
calling a couple of years ago for defunding the police, both in Congress and at the city level,
and he has to come out and say -- and, to his credit -- I mean, to be fair,
I have never heard President -- President Biden's always said, we don't need to defund the police.
But it's a shame he's in the position he has to do that. He also talked a lot about gun control.
I don't think guns are the problem. People using the guns
are the problem. A gun has never gotten up and walked out and killed anyone.
So, gun violence, it's the people who would use guns for violence, Judy.
And we need to look at the root cause of that. We know we have a drug problem.
I was looking at an article just a little while ago about record number of fentanyl
coming across our border. We need to shut that down. That leads to gun violence.
So I'm glad President Biden said what he said yesterday.
Again, I think it's unfortunate that he has to be a guy saying, we shouldn't defund the police,
because that should be obvious. Of course, we shouldn't defund police.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Jonathan, just -- I know it's a big subject. Just
30 seconds left to talk about how this debate has shifted.
JONATHAN CAPEHART: It shifted in
that, one, on defunding the police, no one serious out there wants to defund the police.
I think what President Biden and certainly Mayor Eric Adams are trying to do, they are trying to
walk this line of support supporting the police, but also supporting communities
who have serious concerns about how the police do their jobs in terms of protecting the community.
I think the two of them want to make the police and the community
partners. And in a lot of places around the country, they are.
But, as we have seen, especially tonight in Minneapolis,
with William Brangham's report, there are serious issues.
JUDY WOODRUFF: It's such a big subject. And I know we're going to be coming back to it.
Thank you both, Jonathan Capehart, Gary Abernathy.
JONATHAN CAPEHART: Thanks, Judy. JUDY WOODRUFF: Have a good weekend.
GARY ABERNATHY: You too.