let kidhu upon from an eight four seven area code e there is earphones of
but down the debt
uh... yes i am aaron jones-trumpet page uh... libert
debate here
i'm sorry
i'm a libertarian and i like the big year fantastic
let's do this
oak
whether well what what would you like to uh... what is there a particular issue
that you would like to uh... talk about or what
akbar video a
argue from last december eleven november on your show uh... disinvited
libertarians to debate uh... and you were talking talking about the utopian
is a lot of it and uh... and talking about somalia
uh...
i'm going to wondering if you have any questions for me pretty clear
yes uh...
how do you believe in such fantastical notions
well um... i i could answer out of the late
you go to the returns to enter our will win with the last time the free market
exists in the country and i would argue that it has never existed
in anything you could really
on country because the country has uh... in did the governmental apparatus is
this
and part of that
the definition of the state has a monopoly on uh... on
on pulp and distributing public goods and services
so i would argue that uh... you know society that has been governed by a
single country has any kind of uh... libertarian utopia medicare protested
i agree totally
so um...
uh...
ended yet you think it can exist
i think you can uh... i think it doesn't necessarily require the abolition of
government per se certain he doesn't require the evolution of governance or
any kind of social or economic order of the day in kind of dynamic
uh... social up social order
but uh... we can still have governance and investment i just think it has to be
a exceeded two voluntarily
and um... i wouldn't go a step further than the libertarian to embrace the
constitution by saying that even the constitution was not put on the american
public about it
drooping sentiments
uh... really drafted by a fifty-five uh... fifty five people who had the
ability to choose um... who
i think the point of this government on
it all populistic not be enough people you can choose not to be covered by the
british in america and buggers or anybody else bridal
so you see my point here i mean i could save you ok woven
how about this everybody can uh... sent to uh... the uh... the constitution and
our governance here
and if you don't like it do you know leave
and you'll tell me what there's nowhere for you to go
because then you have to uh... uh... assent to somebody else's governing
thing
and this is why i say it's utopian in a fantasy land
and
then what happens is uh... what libertarian say to me well
uh... they give an example you know i do think that world peace is possible
uh... total peace and i say probably not may go but you still aspire for that but
the problem is is that when you aspire
for more freedom as you talk about door
i'm not sure whatever the term is used and i wanna put words in your mouth
as you pursue that
what happens is is it
knowing that you can never get there
uh... the promises all you do is on shackle the restraints that are on these
corporate bodies
uh... that began to basically in slave us in a more dramatic fashion
uh... and we become enslaved to might makes right and that's it
a little clipper pellet very bitter i mean i i i think all indicate whether
other there on the left for the right they are going to copy and in that they
want their own conduct breed or liberty or whatever and and it wont grow world
but explorer without a crime
and unprotected center something that two-inch
who aspire to i mean i think it's not the state particularly possible that it
if the goal that should always be trying to be achieved so
well when you lose their for more peace or less crime
the journey even if you don't ever get there at the journey there is not as
destructive
as the journey to this libertarian utopia because the journey to this
libertarian utopia unless you get there it is a completely binary situation
because this notion where you do not have governing uh... government
constraining any actors in society means that you will necessarily have those who
amassed power and then app nasa even
more and more power and exploit everyone else
i do think that uh... some butler libertarian cutest journey into a
libertarian utopia could be dangerous because cooper corporate power
and it could allow for the kind of uh... further though kind of violent chaos
become between one st and uh... a revolution to bring to the another state
because there be a period and the tyler no one is governing and and that uh...
that and that really would last forever
because we think of these because you'll never get to that utopian state
so i mean that's my point
libertarian that's fine to have a utopian vision and if we could just jump
to that utopia which is impossible
uh... not just
the existence of that utopia my estimation because you can these are
always going to organize
and that is just the nature of human beings
um... but deepak
after the journey there as actually far more oppressive and exploitative
okay well you can you had a question before about uh... about regarded if you
like it get out uh...
uh... thurs that was kind of ratings approach the vote with their feet
anywhere he if you live in america is you'll each have the opportunity to
choose to move
if you can look for it
to to move to the states where at st louis policy people either left or
practice
but those
simply discard or or poor people who unfortunately are predisposed to
committing crime there there are coming to you
circumstance
it's hard for them to choose a uncovered without without
in your local orbital
so away to solve that problem is that simply what the
state uh... it incurred states to offer citizenship status
if people living in neighboring states if you can have a kind of competitive
government in every city
uh... and i i didn't you tell same problem all over again it's just you
have fifty of those problems instead of one
the elect them we have if their problems well but i i p
i'm not sure answer i'm afraid i the timing
and these important have any government that pushed on that without their
consent ended
uh... and government we're going to be viewed it as a are all the services
provided by government would be unit as commerce and he viewed in the context of
a market so there would be competition
nor would have to
itself they don't want based on where they where they live or where they are
walking the weather
writing why is it that much cheaper to move our state says it would be a tid
different uh... country
positively for temporary was a cheaper for me to move from new york to uh...
arizona then new york too
to mexico
uh... we're talking about how other about whether people are not talking
about how uh... uh... there actually a libertarian and socialist anarchy uh...
idea belt belet allow people to choose who cover them regardless of where they
live and without movie
if we have enough expansion of government market engineering markets in
the neighboring territorial jurisdiction
and people would eventually not happen he will get a company should be able to
choose to go into them without moving a little bit so where they are
and and and and
and just
narrowly following what you're talking about
uh... apparel depict you turned for other you cannot go national personal
property national personal communism
anarchy with the p
uh... agar dot p_r_i_ assembled ralph uh... right and left anarchist dition
good at
sick to get to this lady i'm talking about and i think it could be taken
hostage possible buying you do you think any of us as possible
me anywhere what you're talking about the depicted this is even
remotely
i do but i don't think any of our coalition even the most libertarian ones
will be willing to put into place
do you think any of this is possible
if none of the politicians are gonna put this into place
and uh... arm
the the poor people you talk about him about the country
uh... don't have access to inundated online access
do you army
do you think any of this is possible which you think is more possible that
uh... you and i will become uh...
uh... multimillionaires or that uh... did that this will happen
activity it looking at the court possible that we could become retrograde
there
and i i think it simply a matter of people of people look at this government
uh... voices on the without their consent
justice something that uh... that rebelling against the stage
impact has
someone college by only is really just a so uh...
dr pen
inability of people to he beat me we we have to have competition to provide
government services and and that people take up the slack that government left
behind her
that there
if you go into the fact that there's that
but there's a market for
some kind of different agencies to compete with the states
and if people could start offering their own services whether help carey in any
anything that
but including dot including common defense
and uh... personal property um... i would like to act on it
what about the share whatever they call themselves now i'm in uh... did that we
have private armies
days in medicare id antigenic good example of uh... health care provided by
the private
that that ended up being more expensive
out you know all this is fine but it is honestly it so fantastical that it's not
even in the realm of of
is not in the realm of politics because as we go down like i say you know i
don't even know
this notion that we're going out perfect competition it has never existed
what you're talking about has never existed in anytime
there's never been a time in human history
where you have to competing armies
and people somehow in the mail can just decide randomly like under join an army
running to join the army
what more often happens is one of the army's gets there first decides that
we're going to kill off 'em you know certain population we're going to
forcibly drafty others we're going to rate the women and we're gonna kill the
children that's what's
i wouldn't call it we can about the army burger on voluntary action i mean i'm
not i mean i'm talking about private armies or non-governmental armies or or
whatever
you know your that you're living in a world that's not even like delegates
thrones is closer to reality that what you're talking about
and i'm talking throughout history you can find and short tiny pockets of where
uh... people are born into societies and then willingly or just a born into
nature i guess and then willingly uh... join societies
but they're certainly if
even then they're being coerced by the fact that they can't possibly do
anything on their own that could sustain
at butler terri popular armies but uh... but collective breath while preparing
people to be looking grim reality director at the post
but i'm also wondering about how you can describe blackwater for private army is
in the public by a taxpayer don't forget that government contract
bottega private contracts to they work for
around the government's just one of their clients
blackwater gets a gets gets money from
mile corporations to from anybody who's got the money don't work for
ocr well
how much money how much work money do you think they would have preferred
another government contract recruiter corporations paying them
significantly half
they'd still exist
that the smaller business uh... you know that their private entities that they'll
get government on tax
you get contact some other governments
i mean i i i don't know what world you're living in
that any of what you're talking about to come about
uh... imploring his rupert simple there are no taxes being levied there are no
police officers on living internet and libertarian etiquette utopia right now
uh... i have never ever want to go but i don't think under police protection
agency living in a libertarian ito kept my own creation ok and uh...
how did you build up how did you create that drive all and what's
that device that you're using to call me
uh... on
how did that get developed
give ron how are you are or
art you're running water where you are
are you saying there would be no water but up governments
now i'm asking is in new york utopian room there
in your utopian house do you have one inc water
at
how did it get there
and i have a phone and i i think that ball with money and i think that i would
were it not for the federal reserve dollar i would have bought it with some
other currency or through ordering it my way burke are used for that israel on
the internet
order are you listening to this show on the internet
i'm not but i do have internet
isn't that tainting muir
or libertarian utopian paradise
and mean
without the cover letter did
the government
built that
well figuring what we survive so
to be contest contractual myself i mean there's no cop in the room killing at
least so do i no no no no no the nana
nine out
don't ride is a parallel between the fact that the government built the
internet andy covering any government that lets you live
that's not the does are not does not pay their that is not hot
apparels
that is not an analogy
i think that if you're doing with the fact that you're not equilibrium
in a libertarian utopia
in that room
looting yourself
you would not be able to communicate with me
in that place if it existed you would not know that i was alive
you would not know that i had made a challenge on utube
and it could work it would occur to you know if they were if they were not for a
private internet providers in private computer maker indeed i am not calling
for the abolition
of uh... the above of of private uh... internet companies
and not turn out for you
under your saying there should be no government you're claiming that you're
living in a libertarian bobble and you're not
you're not
i'm a cruel or that i'm a cruel voluntarily resign posters through
social order through a social interaction on others how do you think
you know it's off of the advantages you bet
from the government from the tax dollars from society
and then you byu you your you yet knew this is like the
usually you you're you're saying that i am find floating in the middle of the of
the of the of the sky and you realize you're standing on a building
under saying that i own underground i think that there's nothing in my life i
owe to take that with the third party or voluntary appropriation bunker
interaction or even government unjust i'm not anything that the american
government should be abolished under think it should allow for competitors
and it should allow cats have competitors there's a lot of countries
around the world
uncaring
competitors in the same imaging territory
in hahahaha and i don't think that if i can see it
abrasion of appreciate