POSITION OF POWER HOLDING THE
DOOR OPEN FOR THE MOB.
FOR MORE ON THE STATE OF
AMERICAN DEMOCRACY AT THEIR
PERILOUS MOMENT JOINED BY
CONGRESSWOMAN ALEXANDRIA
OCASIO-CORTEZ.
CONGRESSWOMAN, GREAT TO HAVE YOU
ON THE PROGRAM.
>> THANK YOU.
>> I WANT TO START WITH -- I
WANT TO START WITH THIS SORT OF
DIVISION HERE, AND JUST ASK YOU
TO REACT TO IT IF IT SEEMS TO
YOU ACCURATE.
I MEAN, I SPENT A LOT OF MY TIME
TALKING TO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS
AND STAFFERS.
SEEMS MOST DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY
IS PRETTY FREAKED OUT ABOUT THIS
STUFF AND REALLY THINKS THAT
THERES VERY IMPORTANT URGENCY
HERE TO DEFEND AMERICAN
DEMOCRACY.
AND THEN SOME FOLKS THINK, AH,
IN THE END IT WILL WORK OUT.
IS THAT TRACK WITH YOUR
EXPERIENCE OF THE CONVERSATIONS
THAT ARE HAPPENING ON THE HILL?
>> I THINK SO.
I THINK THAT THOSE OF US AND
THOSE DEMOCRATS WHO REALLY
ACKNOWLEDGE THE EXISTENTIAL
THREAT AND THE ASSAULT ON THE
RIGHT TO VOTE AND REALLY, WHEN I
SAY "RECOGNIZE IT" I MEAN
THEYRE PUTTING THE PIECES
TOGETHER BETWEEN WHAT THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY IS DOING ON THE
STATE LEVEL AND THE ASSAULTS ON
THE RIGHT TO VOTE IN GEORGIA,
TEXAS, ARIZONA, REALLY ACROSS
THE STATE.
AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
AND HOW THAT IS BEING PIECED
TOGETHER FEDERALLY WITH THIS
IDEA THAT WE CANNOT PASS
LEGISLATION TO PROTECT THE RIGHT
TO VOTE, BECAUSE THOSE WHO ARE
ATTACKING IT WONT VOTE TO
PROTECT IT.
AND I THINK THAT -- SO THERES
AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF ALARM FOR
THOSE OF US HERE WHO BELIEVE
THAT OUR COUNTRY IS STILL IN A
VERY VULNERABLE PLACE,
POST-DONALD TRUMP, THAT WE ARE
JUST HANGING ON A THREAD OF
DEMOCRACY, AND ITS OUR
RESPONSIBILITY RIGHT NOW WITH
UTMOST URGENCY TO REALLY
STRENGTHEN A LOT OF OUR
DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS THAT
WERE TAKEN VERY MUCH TO THE
BRINK DURING THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION, WHICH CULMINATED
ON JANUARY 6th.
AND -- AND THOSE WHO, YOU
KNOW -- I THINK THERES JUST
SOME FOLKS THAT HAVE UNWAVERING
FAITH IN AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS
THAT REALLY DONT HAVE A LOT OF
EVIDENCE FOR WHY OUR
INSTITUTIONS WOULD NOT BE
VULNERABLE.
WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY
th.
AND
6th AND ITS REALLY IMPORTANT
FOR FOLKS TO CONNECT THIS TO
JANUARY 6th.
THE REASON THOSE PEOPLE STORMED
THE CAPITOL WAS BECAUSE OF THE
LAWSUITS, BECAUSE OF ALL OF THIS
DOUBT, BECAUSE OF THE ELECTION
CHALLENGES.
BECAUSE VOTER SUPPRESSION MADE A
LOT OF RACISTS CLOSER THAN THEY
SHOULD HAVE BEEN, AND -- AND I
THINK, YOU KNOW, YOUR ASSESSMENT
IS CORRECT, THAT THERES
MAJORITY I THINK, ARE QUITE
CONCERNED BUT I THINK THERE ARE
SOME MEMBERS THAT, YOU KNOW,
REPRESENT COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE
NEVER REALLY HAD THEIR RIGHT TO
VOTE ATTACKED IN A WAY.
THEY DONT REPRESENT COMMUNITIES
FOR WHICH THIS IS A VERY REAL
THREAT, AND SO I THINK THEY
DONT THINK IT IS AS REAL AS IT
VERY MUCH IS.
>> ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT -- IS
THAT A JOE MANCHIN-TYPE
REFERENCE THERE?
OR TALKING ANYTHING IN
PARTICULAR.
>>> OH, I THINK JOE MANCHIN IS
ABSOLUTELY ONE OF THEM.
JOE MANCHIN REPRESENTS A STATE
THAT ISNT HAVE DIVERSE.
HE DOESNT REPRESENT A VERY
LARGE POPULATION OF BLACK VOTERS
WHOSE RIGHT TO VOTE IS
CONSTANTLY UNDER ATTACK.
AND SO I -- I CANT HELP BUT
WONDER ALOUD.
I SEE THIS AS WELL, AND IN THE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
HOW THERE USUALLY IS HESITANCY
OR ITS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A
DEBATE WHEN A MEMBER HAS TO TAKE
OUT A RISKY VOTE ON A COMMUNITY
THAT THEY DONT REPRESENT.
AND SO THAT REPRESENTATION AND
THAT PLIGHT IN IS AS INTERNIZED.
I THINK PEOPLE THINK FOR WHOM
THRIGHT TO VOTE HASNT BEEN
UNDER ATTACK, THAT THIS IS
SOMETHING THAT IS OVERBLOWN,
WHEN IT VERY MUCH IS NOT.
>> I MEAN, JUST TO PLAY DEVILS
ADVOCATE A MINUTE.
ITS WORK TALKING ABOUT, I FEEL.
ONE OF THE THINGS INTERESTING
AND STRANGE HERE IS INCENTIVES
SEEM TO BE ALIGNED FOR ALL
DEMOCRATIC POLITICIANS.
RIGHT?
IF YOURE JOE MANCHIN, AND
YOURE DEFYING GRAVITY AND HE
SURE AS HECK IS.
RIGHT?
A STATE THAT WENT FOR DONALD
TRUMP BY 40 POINTS, YOUVE GOT
TO GET A LOT OF BLACK FOLKS IN
WEST VIRGINIA AND THERE ARE SOME
TO COME OUT AND VOTE FOR YOU.
MAKE SURE YOUR VOTERS CAN GET TO
THE POLLS.
THATS IN YOUR INTEREST.
HES WINNING BY FIVE POINTS.
SO ITS -- SEEMS TO ME THERE
SHOULD BE THIS SORT OF POLITICAL
SELF-PRESERVATION INTEREST HERE
ABOVE AND BEYOND EVEN THE PRINCIPLE OF IT.
PRINCIPLE OF IT.
YOU KNOW, OPERATING AT THIS
MAKIDAVAN LEDGE IANAN LEVEL.
>> THIS IS A RELIABLY RED STATE.
ATTACKING THE FRANCHISE IN WEST
VIRGINIA IS NOT AS HIGH A
PRIORITY AS D.C.
>> RIGHT.
>> IN THESE STATE-LEVEL LAWS AS
IT IS IN GEORGIA, YOU KNOW, IN
PENNSYLVANIA WITH ELECTION
CHALLENGES.
ARIZONA IN THE ATTEMPT TO
OVERTURN ELECTION RESULTS.
>> RIGHT.
>> AND SO, YOU KNOW, AGAIN I
THINK THAT THIS IS STILL A VERY
CRITICAL ISSUE, BUT, YOU KNOW,
ON THAT NOTE OF POLITICAL
PRESERVATION, ONE THING THAT IS
NOT BEING DISCUSSED ABOUT, AND I
DO THINK IT SHOULD BE TALKED
ABOUT MORE, IS THE FACT THAT
H.R.-1 IS ONE OF THE MOST
ASSERTIVE BILLS THAT WE HAVE TO
TACKLE DARK MONEY IN POLITICS.
AND SO THERE ARE TWO VERY KEY
COMPONENTS IN HR 1 IN THE FOR
THE PEOPLE ACT.
ONE IS, A FORCEFUL AND, AND VERY
STRONG PROVISIONS AND LAWS TO
COMBAT OUTRIGHT VOTER
SUPPRESSION.
AND THESE ARE PROPOSALS, AND IF
PASSED, IT WOULD ESSENTIALLY
PREEMPT CHANGES TO STATE LAW.
SO PROTECT PEOPLES ACTUAL RIGHT
TO VOTE.
BUT THE OTHER ASPECT OF THIS IS
THAT HR 1 STANDS UP AGAINST
LOBBYISTS AND DARK MONEY.
AND I WOULD RECKON TO THINK THAT
THIS IS PROBABLY JUST AS MUCH A
PART OF JOE MANCHINS CALCULUS
AS ANYTHING ELSE.
BECAUSE WHEN IT COMES TO THIS
BIPARTISAN ARGUMENT, I GOT TO
TELL YA, I DONT BUY IT.
BECAUSE JOE MANCHIN HAS VOTED
FOR BILLS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN
BIPARTISAN BEFORE.
LOOK AT THE AMERICAN RESCUE
PLAN.
SO THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT
BIPARTISANSHIP.
THIS IS, I THINK, BECAUSE YOU
LOOK AT THE KOCH BROTHERS AND
YOU LOOK AT, YOU KNOW,
ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE HERITAGE
FOUNDATION AND CONSERVATIVE
LOBBY GROUPS THAT ARE DOING A
VICTORY LAP, CLAIMING VICTORY
OVER THE FACT THAT MANCHIN
REFUSES TO CHANGE ON THE
FILIBUSTER.
AND I THINK THAT THESE TWO
THINGS ARE VERY CLOSELY
INTERTWINED, AND I THINK THAT
THERES A DESIRE TO MAKE THIS
JUST ABOUT -- PROTECTING THE
FRANCHISE, BUT PROTECTING OUR
DEMOCRACY IS ALSO ABOUT MAKING
SURE THAT WE GIVE LOBBYISTS AND
DARK MONEY GROUPS, WHICH ARE
FUNDING THESE ATTACKS, ON THE
RIGHT TO VOTE, THE BOOT.
YOU KNOW, CORPORATE MONEY HAS A
VERY, VERY TIGHT GRIP ON BOTH
PARTIES.
AND I THINK THAT THAT HAS, HAS
TO DO WITH THE CALCULUS IN THE
SITUATION THAT PEOPLE ARENT
REALLY DISCUSSING ENOUGH.
>> YEAH.
ITS A VERY GOOD POINT.
I MEAN, BRACKET FOR A SECOND MY
OWN FEELING ABOUT LIKE, WHAT THE
ROBERTS COURT WOULD DO WITH THE
DARK MONEY PROVISIONS OF HR-1, A
ROAD, A BRIDGE TO CROSS IN THE
FUTURE, BUT ITS STRIKING TO ME.
I WANT YOUR REACTION TO THIS.
IN SOME WAYS, RIGHT, McCONNELL
HATES THAT PART.
REPUBLICANS HATE, HATE, HATE THE
DARK MONEY PART.
HATE, HATE, HATE IT.
McCONNELL IS, DARK MONEY NUMBER
ONE CHAMPION.
HIS NAME ON ONE OF THE BIG
SCOTUS CASES ON THIS.
AND TALK ABOUT PRE-CLEARANCE IN
THE VOTE BE RIGHTS ACTS OR JOHN
LEWIS VOTING RIGHTS ACTS,
MANCHIN IS IN FAVOR OF.
MURKOWSKI WROTE A LETTER ABOUT.
NONE OF THE MONEY, NONE OF THE
CORPORATE MONEY STUFF.
RIGHT?
HERES McCONNELL TODAY.
A LETTER THATS A STARTER FOR
HIM OR NOT.
TAKE A IRAN WILLLISTEN.
>> NO THREAT TO THE VOTER LIGHTS
LAW.
ITS AGAINST THE LAW TO
DISCRIMINATE ON THE BASE OF RACE
ALREADY SO I THINK ITS
UNNECESSARY.
>> SO ITS LIKE, THERES THE
WHACK-A-MOLE, RIGHT?
THERES NO PROBLEM, NARROW IT
DOWN TO PROVISIONS YOU GET
McCONNELL SAYING, NO, HES NOT
DOWN FOR VOTING ACT
REINSTATEMENT EITHER.
>> YES.
ABSOLUTELY.
THE THING IS, ITS NOT JUST
ABOUT HR-1.
EVEN IF MITCH McCONNELL SAID I
BELIEVE IN RESTORATION OF THE
VOTING RIGHTS ACTS.
LETS PASS HR-4.
THE PROBLEM IS THE CHANGES IN
HR-4 DO NOT HAVE PREEMPTIVE
POWER AND DONT HAVE PROTECTIONS
HR-1 HAS.
YOU PASS HR-4, YOU MAY GET THE
PRE-CLEARANCE PROVISIONS BUT NOT
THE PROTECTIONS AND REFORMS ON
GERRYMANDERING.
DONT GET CHANGES ON AUTOMATIC
VOTER REGISTRATION.
YOU DONT GET THE ACTUAL
PROTECTIONS OF WHAT REPUBLICAN
STATES ARE ACTUALLY ATTACKING
BLACK AND BROWN AND LOW-INCOME
VOTERS WITH RIGHT NOW.
FROM POLL STATIONS ET CETERA.
SO EVEN IF YOU DO PASS JUST HR-4
AND DONT DO ANYTHING ON HR-1,
YOURE STILL UP A CREEK WITHOUT
A PADDLE, AND WE ARE IN VERY,
VERY, VERY DEEP TROUBLE IF WE DO