No matter what stage of transition you're in, no matter where you are in your life,
you are worthy to be here. You are worthy of love, and you are lovable.
And we must claim the sacred spaces that are already here for us,
that are waiting for us just to claim them.
So claim your crown.
Hey there everyone. My name is Tre'Vell Anderson
and we are here to discuss Disclosure.
Joining us we have executive producer of the documentary
and one of the featured voices, Laverne Cox.
We also have with us Angelica Ross,
one of the other featured voices in Disclosure,
and you all know her from her work in POSE,
American Horror Story and so many other things.
Before we get into the film though,
I'd love to hear from each of you
how you two became friends?
How you came into each other's orbit?
I'm wondering... yes, girl, how did we meet, girl?
I believe it was 2013
and it was the first Trans 100.
I went to Chicago to support.
And that's when we met for the first time.
If I'm correct, you actually hosted The Trans 100 that year.
I was the host that year.
I was the host onstage and so I had my little audio equipment,
and I was doing interviews of people that were coming through beforehand, as well.
And I remember when Laverne, I first met her, she had on her flats,
Miss Ma’am had on a little sweater, very, very humble,
very humble pie coming in the door.
She's like, "How can I help?"
I had finished shooting the first season of Orange is the New Black.
It had not come out yet, because the Trans 100 was in March.
Orange didn't come out till July. So yeah, I had shot it and it was coming out.
I didn't know what was going to happen.
And you were just so like,
"I'm here for community and what can I do to help?"
In such a way that, so much happened in a year
and the next year when you came back, it was like,
Laverne Cox! The Laverne Cox!
Well, we're here to discuss Disclosure.
Laverne, as an executive producer,
could you give us a little bit of background information
in terms of how you got involved with the project?
Angelica is the reason I became involved in Disclosure.
I was living here in LA and I was missing community
and I went online and I saw that you and Jen Richards
were speaking at a panel and I went because of you
and Sam Feder happened to be giving a presentation
of the research that would become Disclosure.
I'd always wanted to do something that in my mind
I called it the Transgender Celluloid Closet.
For those who don't know, is a film that's based on the book by Vito Russo
that looked at the history of Gay and Lesbian representation in Hollywood.
For years I was like, "We need something like that for Trans people."
What moments from your memory,
your recollection of Trans history,
were very important for you to have included in the film?
So my first memories of seeing what I thought was a Trans character on screen,
which was Edie Stokes from The Jeffersons.
It was also the relationship between drag,
the history of sort of comedians, particularly African-American comedians, dressing in drag.
I knew we needed to unpack the impact of those representations
on the lives of Trans people and my life, life as a Trans person specifically.
Angelica, you smiled when she said The Jeffersons,
Edie Stokes and The Jeffersons.
What's your connection to Trans imagery prior to this particular moment?
One thing we couldn't also find, I don't think, in the archives
was the fact that I had appeared on the Maury Povich Show twice.
When we watch those shows Maury Povich,
"Is it a he or a she?"
When we watch those shows.
The ones who were the most sickening
caught people's attention.
And so for us in the Trans community,
it was like the casting call of all casting calls.
Maybe somebody might eventually cast you on something or what have you.
That was our...to hope for.
And because we were taught by allowing the media
to do an exploitation into our lives,
that was one of the ways we could be discovered.
And now I'm so grateful that we have other avenues.
As exploitative as they were, there's something so beautiful
looking back and seeing the show girls from the 90s
who were just epic and legendary and everything on these shows,
even as they didn't necessarily teach the best lessons
to cisgender people about who Trans people were,
just the fact that we were there and we have evidence.
So now we have stories like POSE
and other stories that are LGBTQ centered
that are finally including opportunities for us to show.
But what is so beautiful about what you just said Angelica
and about this history is that we've always found a way.
Whether there were opportunities or not, we created them,
we made them happen. We made them work for us.
One of the things that Disclosure does so beautifully
is it takes all of these very different images
and very different moments and allows us as a community
to grapple with both kinds of the positives and the negatives, right.
It's been so beautiful though over the years seeing a Transparent happen
and really seeing a POSE happen and seeing all of the talent.
Because for so many years, even before I broke through,
people were saying, there's no Trans actors,
and you can't say that anymore.
Laverne, could you give us a little bit of information
about how you all put together the team that gave us Disclosure
and the importance of that intention?
We were committed to making sure that everyone,
not only who's on screen in Disclosure is Trans,
but everyone who works behind the scenes is also Trans.
And when we could not find someone Trans to fill a role,
Sam Feder, our brilliant director had an idea of creating
a fellowship program where that cisgender person would train a Trans person in a job.
Everyone was invested in the material and in the subject matter in a really, really special way.
All of our interns got paid and that was really challenging.
And so our budget was very different. Our budget model was really different.
It is crucial that we have people, diverse folks, writers rooms and crews, behind the scenes,
but how do we cultivate that talent?
What are we going to do to provide opportunities for that talent
to cultivate themselves so that they're prepared when that call comes.
Both of you are producing other work.
I'm wondering if what happened with Disclosure
and the way that people are responding to Disclosure,
has changed how you approach the work that you're doing?
For me, Disclosure was just further proof
that Trans people being in charge of Trans narratives
is a good idea.
And so I want to be a part of creating a platform
and be involved in creating a space for my community to shine.
What I feel is possible now, post Disclosure,
is for us to really have more sophisticated narratives around Trans people.
One of the things that I love so much about the film
is the ways in which it kind of pairs transphobia with racism.
I just wanted to start with you Angelica, about any reflections
that you have about what this film coming out at this particular moment says.
What we're seeing with Disclosure is we can actually get through to people,
if the lion is finally telling the stories instead of the hunter,
that maybe we're not shooting and hunting lions.
Now's the time where folks are starting to amplify what we've been saying all along.
There's so much to learn from Disclosure, not just about how we think about Trans people
but also how we think about women, and how we think about Black people.
And I also believe that Disclosure gives us an opportunity to think about media in general
and how it can teach us how to think about ourselves, about each other.
And that's not just about Trans people.
That's about a lot of media that's coming at us right now, teaching us very specific things.
And we have to, as citizens, as human beings,
have to be able to have a critical relationship to everything that we're receiving in the media.
And I think Disclosure gives us a wonderful template and frame with which to do that.
Meanwhile, there's so much that's being done to try to erase us.
It is up to us to never forget all of the Trans lives that we lost,
never forget that they're counting on us to continue to make it better.
What the folks at the Anti-Violence Project have taught us
over the years is that the ways in which we end or mitigate, at least,
violence against Trans people, is that we need housing.
We need access to housing.
When you're homeless and Trans, you're going to experience violence way more.
That people need access to jobs.
We need access to medical care.
These crucial material things, can help mitigate
and maybe even end violence against Trans people.
Obviously people need to stop killing us too.
People need to get their stuff together to stop killing us.
Statistically, we know that cis men, often cis men of color, who are killing us.
And I've said this and people have criticized me for it,
but your attraction to me is not a reason to kill me.
And so we need to be doing so much work with men in this country,
and masculinity, so that they understand that their attraction to Trans women is not a reason to kill us.
I would love if both of you just gave a message to camera
for our siblings out there in the community,
something that you would like them to remember.
There've been so many moments in my life where I said to myself,
"I'll be worthy after this surgery, or I'll be worthy after this landmark in my transition, I'll be worthy after this."
But worthiness has no prerequisites. Worthiness is a birthright.
You are worthy right now,
no matter what stage of transition you're in,
no matter where you are in your life, you are worthy.
When I think about that there is no place where Blackness does not exist.
We are everywhere.
And so I think the very same thing about Trans people.
It's equally as true across the spectrum of LGBTQ+ folks
Not only should we as Trans people know that we exist everywhere,
but so should society, because they think that we are relegated to the margins
when I could be on the boat at that party.
I could be the doctor giving you your diagnosis.
So we just have to know that Trans people exist
at all levels of society and we deserve to exist.
Thank you both for joining us for this conversation.
We truly appreciate it.
Thank you so much. Thank you.