I coined the term this called the
Roswell e'en syndrome and that is we
have a report and exciting report of
something extraterrestrial then we have
it shot down if you will and it goes
away but it never really goes away
people's memories start playing tricks
on them so if they're all put into this
burgeoning folklore of the hidden saucer
I can't help but believe that I was the
only one that witnessed what I witnessed
and I know they're just as real as I
know that you're sitting there right
there you start getting the believers
coming in asking leading questions and
suddenly you have all these witnesses
all these stories of things hidden away
in controversy and cover-up so it comes
back like a virus that has been dormant
for all these years and it comes back
with a vengeance and Roswell has never
gotten over that so we're in the middle
of the desert in Roswell New Mexico this
is ground zero for this country's
endless fascination with all things
alien it was here that in 1947 an
alleged UFO crashed and what did or
didn't happen that day is still up for
debate fast words the 1990s I'm a little
kid watching the x-files every single
week at the time I kind of fancied
myself a Fox Mulder but in reality I
think I was a little bit more of a Dana
Scully so that's why we're here in
Roswell New Mexico we're gonna talk to
some true believers talk to some
skeptics
and see if the truth is really out there
I decided to start at the UFO Museum in
downtown Roswell which is a safe space
for all of our true believers UFO
researchers call themselves ufologists
and a huge contingent has descended upon
Roswell for the annual UFO festival some
of these alien researchers have come in
contact with what they claim are
extraterrestrials but even if they
haven't actually seen flying saucers
they've all devoted their lives to
convincing the public the aliens have
touched down on earth well I've got a
UFO series the newest book is
essentially the encounters there's a
sexual aspect to it there appears to be
a breeding program there's quite a
number of people young ladies who
believe they have been the mothers of
hybrid babies I spent a lot of time in
South America and in certain areas UFOs
almost do what I call milk runs you see
them all the time going the same routes
we saw a lighted area we attacked and
what we thought was a compound flew off
when it crossed the moon it was your
typical oval UFO we attacked we were
shooting at it the rounds were bouncing
off luckily it didn't retaliate
it's gotten pretty chill of all the
ufologists in town the most well-known
is Stanton Friedman a modern-day Mulder
Stan was the leading civilian
investigator of the Roswell crash and
he's one of the biggest names in the
field today I'm hoping he can give me an
expert perspective on why I should
believe actually looks exactly like what
I would imagine a prominent UFO
researcher look like my name is Stanton
T Friedman I've had an interest in
flying saucer since 1958 my name is on
five books I do a monthly column for the
muons journal I'm the big mouth that
ufology you might say I'm sort of a
retired nuclear physicist my basic rules
is have facts in hand before putting
mouth and gear you'd think everybody
would have that rule but they don't they
get away with whatever lies they can get
away with they have their own agendas
what's the most convincing type of
evidence crash retrieval is nice I also
like cases where police officers are
involved we're respected citizens of the
community whose word you'd accept about
anything else are involved I'm trying to
lift the laughter Kurt which is a major
problem and part of that problem is
caused by these nasty noisy negative is
making stupid statements that imply that
no respectable person or whatever see
anything do you know Joe Nickell yes
he's sort of he's a nasty noisy negative
is if I can put it that way Joe Nickell
is a controversial figure in the ufology
community he's the resident paranormal
investigator at the Center for inquiry a
pro secular pro science organization
outside of Buffalo New York
it's the Center's mission to expose
superstition and pseudoscience and they
take on everyone from climate change
deniers to phoney psychics for his part
Joe travels all over the world
investigating claims of UFOs haunted
houses Bigfoot and other spooky stuff
he's been called the real-life Dana
Scully
and he's even written a book about his
work called the real-life x-files
ufologist takes serious umbrage with
Joe's mission and they
he's a close-minded debunker out to make
them look like a bunch of crazies
but according to Joe the truth is out
there it's just a lot less fantastic
than the molders of the world might like
let me give you one of my Wooden Nickel
of what I way of introduction sure this
looks solid it's actually made of made
of rubber yeah if we take it like this
and just squeeze it no it's over here oh
I started out I was a stage magician of
course noting that Houdini had spent the
last years of his life as a paranormal
investigator exposing phony spiritualist
I realized pretty early on that magic
background helps you see the illusions
for example people who see a longneck
multi humped serpentine creature on the
water may be seeing two or three or four
otters swimming in a line
it's powerfully deceptive I had a way of
looking at things where I was aware of
illusions more than the average person
and so I started with a world-famous
private detective agency
it was great for me because I got to do
all kinds of investigations and play all
kinds of roles when I see these ghost
hunter types saying their paranormal
investigators and I think no you're not
they don't want it solved they
absolutely don't want solved they want
to sell you the mystery it's what a
detective's motivation is is to solve a
mystery this is probably the largest
bank of case files on the skeptic side I
dare to say all most in the world does
this to note that these are specifically
UFO files this is here's one on the
Kelly Kentucky little green man a case
in which and guys were attacked by
Martians yeah and I think they were
attacked by a pair of territorial owls
it's very difficult to talk to someone
who's believer some of the flying saucer
people are mostly male when they get
hysterical they you know begin to
threaten you and the shriek and they're
pretty cold
angry bunch this battle between
believers and skeptics has blurred the
line between fiction and reality
Joe is friends with William B Davis who
played the cigarette smoking man on the
x-files as the show's main villain he
was the mouthpiece for every conspiracy
from Roswell to the JFK assassination
but in real life he's actually a skeptic
just like Joe Davis and I played the
he's technically I guess the villain of
the piece he's a man was great too
Authority a great power the cigarette
smoking man has made a deal with the
aliens because that will save something
of humanity the problem with doing that
of course is they can start turning the
screws and make it worse at worse and
worse that's a lot of what I think
happened to the smoking man eventually
he's just been forced into a role that
he just has to hollow out his emotional
life in order to function I mean really
the fallacy of Mulder's position is that
he wants to believe and and therefore he
believes but the show of course is
slanted in his directions his hunches
turn out to be valid most of the time it
has always surprised me how many
skeptics are x-files fans that's why I
got involved just with skeptical
inquirer and with Joe Nickell and a lot
of famous skeptics Joe is an
extraordinary person he now it has
become the premiere investigator of
paranormal claims in the world it's a
phenomenal set of abilities and Joe has
the whole complete package he uses
scientific methodology but he also uses
the tools of a critical detective
Sherlock Holmes type skills I'm working
on the Roswell metal wreckage where a
Mac Brazel the rancher comes into town
and he has some debris and he says that
consisted of foiled paper with grommets
just what you would think would be
weather balloon type device or as we now
know
a secret United States government spy
balloon from Project mogul they had
pieces of this medal and they would try
to tear it and it was the wooden on tear
is tough and they said you could pound
it with a sledgehammer and it wouldn't
have any effect on more significantly
and this is a big one
if you crumpled it up what happens to
tin foil it stays crumpled not this this
is they had never seen this before was
like magic to them this stuff it is
polyethylene plastic but it has been
metallized so what you have is aluminum
coated plastic silly to think that this
was part of extraterrestrial craft I
think yeah and now it's as common as
dirt it's magic it was a new thing in
the early 50s when it when it showed up
I can always find something new to
investigate for example at Roswell you
can look at the whole cultural thing
what is what is what is it about
conspiracies and aliens that are
attracting people like a magnet also the
economies and these are all well worth
asking and keeps me endlessly fascinated
right so not just exactly what is
tricking people but why they believe in
what they saw or heard for me
everything's of interest even after
visiting Joe's lab the Mulder and me
wanted to talk to someone trying to make
contact with aliens in a super
scientific way so we headed to the SETI
Institute where researchers have been
looking for alien life for over 30 years
my name is seth shostack i'm senior
astronomer but i'm also the director for
the center of SETI Research said he of
course is the search for
extraterrestrial intelligence the SETI
project involves using big antennas and
trying to eavesdrop on radio signals
from planets that would be around other
stars and so we're trying to find life
that's at least as smart as we are I
would be astounded if there's nobody out
there we're one planet out of a trillion
planets just in our galaxy there 100
billion other galaxies if you're going
to say that this is the only place where
intelligence has arisen then you're
saying you didn't just win the lottery
you want
Honore 20 times in a row Seth is looking
for life that's potentially light-years
away but now it's time to talk to
someone with a more personal perspective
on the ET issue Randi owns a shop in
Roswell and he claims to have witnessed
alien activity much much closer to home
we're sure glad have you guys come visit
us most of our products here at alien
zone are you know our own products we
develop and you know and design our own
products here it's probably what you
know basically puts us on the map is the
fact that we've designed you know some
sets and you know have folks come over
here to take pictures with a different
you know anything's we got here and so
when did you sort of get interested well
the first time I saw one was in 1976 you
know and banking Texas so this is sort
of what is it's an autopsy yeah the song
tops you saying like say we just have
popular or famous you know type of
events like you know the bar scene
everybody like belying up to the bar you
know and I know I've bellied up to a bar
with a few aliens my time yeah yeah yeah
you know everyone so I just got cool out
you know take it easy with the alien so
that's how we do it over here
when we first got in the business and
you know the fact that matter is I came
to make some money you know what when
around here was you know UFOs and aliens
so what did I jump on you know and some
people think because I am so you know
creative and because I have a UFO store
that you know that it'd be very peculiar
that I'd be the one that would spot what
I was presided but you know fact the
matter is it doesn't change the fact
that you know I've seen what I've seen
everybody need to know that this is
reality you know if you're gonna speak
the truth then why it was that matter
you know I'm a faith field man you know
I believe in faith issues you know I'd
say put your faith in Jesus and also
believe that UFOs exist too
also what races the UFO fest I've been
into UFOs since I was 15 years old I
used to live in like a weird forest I've
seen a lot of like weird stuff in sky
maybe there are other intelligent beings
even right here that we can't see
because they're not four armed with
green faces they're so different that we
can't even conceive of them we invited
Joe to come with us to the UFO festival
in Roswell New Mexico so he could see
firsthand the culture that had sprung up
around the crash
we ran out of aliens there oh there look
at the streetlamp globe yeah I hadn't
noticed those before I call myself a
detective
I love the tinfoil hats alien hats
what's the problem with people choosing
to believe in something that's not there
are different degrees of harm what I
worry about is that some people have a
life in which this UFO fantasy is so
dominant it's become so very much like a
cult that it's disconcerting to me if
there are any values and any of any kind
of human beings kind of a bottom line of
that it's gonna be true I'm a skeptic on
on Roswell
I know skeptics aren't welcome in the
city limits but but I haven't been I
haven't been mistreated yet I'm not here
to convince you aliens are real I'm
here's
I mean I've talked to a number of people
here and people will tell you that the
UFO idea drives the Roswell economy look
a lot of the hotels restaurants all that
are flourishing
we don't have factories we don't have
industry what's bringing people to
Roswell I said what would happen if this
one away and he said you know be a
disaster I don't doubt that there's life
out there at all and I think there's
probably been some alien contact on
earth but after talking to a bunch of
ufologists here I think 99.9% of people
who are out there being the most vocal
are really doing a disservice to the
truth they play with facts some of them
are hoaxers they need to use the same
sort of rigor that the skeptics are
asking them to use and then maybe we'll
get to the truth I should say that on
the other side of the equation the
skeptics need to get the giant skeptic
stick out of their ass and allow
themselves to respect the people who
have made these claims I think they need
to work together that's how we're gonna
find out whether aliens exist polls have
shown there's something like 1/3 of the
population think that the aliens are
actually here in their flying saucers
crashing into towns like Roswell but I
used to go to conventions and I would
ask people how many of you believe that
there are aliens among us and maybe half
the people who put their hands up that I
would ask how many of you believe in
conspiracies and every single hand
whether the claim is that the evidence
has all been confiscated by the
government they've got a hidden
somewhere I think that our experiments
may strike some people in the UFO
community is threatening because we
actually have equipment we do
experiments it's based on science we
still haven't found anything that sounds
pretty discouraging and I don't get
discouraged and the reason is to begin
with we're learning more about the
astronomy we're learning how many stars
have planets that might support life but
beyond that the the equipment keeps
getting better we can build some
equipment now that would speed up this
search by several hundred times so if
you ask will the next generation know
that we have some cosmic companionship
up there yeah I bet a cup of coffee that
they will point taken that yeah you can
you can come off as a little strident or
something but when you see how much
nonsense there is it's hard not to
occasionally be a little strident and
there's a point to be made maybe about
this that if there weren't any silly
paranormal stuff I would not have been
needed and you know I could just go back
to being instead of being Scully I could
just be you know me
you