I'm joined by Hanno Pevkur, who is Estonia's defense minister. Mr. Pevkur, Mr. Minister,
you've just met Germany's defense minister, Christine Lambrecht, for a chat. Of course,
the big topic of this week is the fact that Poland has said that Germany should send
Patriot systems to Ukraine to defend Ukraine's air space. What is your position on that?
Well, we all know that Ukraine needs air defense. It doesn't matter who gives it
and when. So as soon as we can give more air defense to Ukraine, the better it is. And so
simple is that. But not only air defense also heavy artillery is much a way that it's already
better with winter equipment, winter gear, clothing. But yes, we all know that it's
not a secret that Ukraine needs air defense. We have seen how many missiles Russia has launched
towards Ukraine. So when there is a possibility to find additional help to Ukraine is much awaited.
Now, the German defense minister says that it is a NATO decision that Patriots cannot be simply
deployed to other countries that would have to be taken that decision within the realm of NATO.
You are, of course, a NATO member. What is your position? How are you going to talk to
your colleagues within NATO? Are you going to try and persuade Germany to send Patriots to Ukraine?
Well, as also Minister Lambrecht said, this is a decision of the NATO countries and NATO.
And we also have to understand that which assets are given to NATO's force structure
to defend NATO's territory, and which are the assets the governments have on their
own or how they can use their own, because, for instance, when we take Spain, then Spain
decided to send their hawks quite recently. We know that Germany sent their own IRIS-T. So,
this is exactly where we have to see that which kind of system is it? Which is given to NATO
or is it up to the government itself to decide? So, when Patriot is under at the moment from
German side in the NATO structure, then it has to be a decision of NATO.
But what is Estonia's position within NATO?
Well, once again, then we will decide it together with our allies. And one thing we have to remember
that Russia wants to divide us apart. So, let's don't do that, that you know, we will play each
other against each other. So, this is exactly what Russia wants to have. This is exactly, you know,
maybe someone wants to achieve that – you know – we are starting to fight over who has more
power. So, this is something we have to avoid. We have to keep the unity. And this is exactly
what we do. When NATO will make a decision, then this decision will be a NATO's decision,
not that one or the other country will decide something different. When we have
the option to decide something, as we have sent much equipment already to Ukraine,
and we will do more in coming months and weeks, then this is our decision. When we
have to make something together, then this is a NATO's decision, what we make together.
Germany suggested and offered to Poland that it would send Patriots to Poland,
but Poland rejected that, instead suggesting that Germany should
deploy Patriots to Ukraine directly. What do you make of Poland's decision?
Well, of course, it's very difficult to explain or to
comment on decisions where I have not participated in these decisions. So,
I believe this is up to Poles, to comment. If you want, I can comment easily our decisions,
what we are sending or how we are helping Ukraine. Because once again, I don't want
to play different members of NATO against each other. This makes no sense. And this is exactly
what Russia wants to have that we are fighting inside of NATO. Not that we have one common
enemy and this common enemy is an aggressor, Russia, who is killing today Ukrainian people.
Do you get the feeling that the incident on the 16th of November,
when missiles landed on Polish territory was somewhat of a wakeup call? Also to NATO's allies
saying we do need to strengthen Ukraine's airspace so that we don't get affected.
Well, from NATO's perspective, NATO has exercised situations like this that there might be an
accidental or intentional rocket towards NATO's. So, of course, we have the plans. Of course,
we have the exercised that kind of situations and scenarios regarding the wake up. Well, for that,
once again, we don't need the wake up. We are awake already. We we see what is going on in
Ukraine. And this is exactly why I said also here today, also in bilateral meeting and have
said that many times in different meetings that we don't have the luxury to say that we will
stop helping Ukraine or someone will say that there is a war fatigue, once again even when
you talk about war fatigue, this is in favor of Russia. This is exactly what they want to achieve,
that West is not united that West is talking about the fatigue, that people are tired,
etc. No, we are not, at least on the political level, we will help Ukraine as long as needed.
And what is your position? What should Germany be doing now? How
can Germany help Ukraine more at the moment?
Well, I'm very grateful to Germany that they have sent many assets which
they don't have even themselves. The IRIS-T is the best example of that. So,
the German army doesn't have IRIS-T at the moment, but they sent this already to
Ukraine. I know that they've taken a commitment to send more IRIS-T to Ukraine. And, you know,
this is exactly what Ukraine needs the most at the moment. I believe we have done a very good
job regarding the winter clothing. Winter clothing is there in Ukraine. More deliveries will be done.
I believe what we can do additionally together is that – a good example is the military field
hospital we have sent together with Germany, two of them to Ukraine. So, Estonia produces,
Germany finances and then we send it to Ukraine. So, basically when you are asking that what
could be done more then every help Ukraine is asking can be done more. So, and in that sense,
we have the Ramstein format. We have a very good overview, what are the Ukrainian needs. And I'm in
constant contact also with Oleksii Reznikov. So, we have the very good understanding what
are the needs of Ukraine. And then we try to fill these gaps and send directly to Ukraine.
One last question: When can we expect a NATO decision regarding the systems to help
prop up essentially the defense of Ukraine's air space?
Well, I believe that these decisions will be finally still made on governmental levels by
each country. So, and this helps and this is more like easiest and speediest way to help Ukraine,
because in NATO we still need 30 countries to make a decision. It's not an easy decision on
the NATO level and that this very moment also the Secretary general of NATO's Jens Stoltenberg
has stated many times that the countries are the ones who are helping at the moment Ukraine
and this is exactly, I believe will also be the best next steps, how to continue helping Ukraine.
Hanno Pevkur, defence Minister of Estonia, thank you very much.
Thank you, very much.