DAVID SPEERS, PRESENTER: Minister, welcome to the program. You've taken a different approach
with this arts package to some of the other Government support packages that are out there
- JobKeeper and JobSeeker are uncapped, they are demand driven. So, too, the HomeBuilder
grants scheme for the construction sector. If more people apply and qualify, then more
money will flow. With the art sector, that's not the case. You've capped the grants available
here. Why this different approach?
PAUL FLETCHER, COMMUNICATIONS MINISTER: Well, it's $250 million over one year. So a very
substantial commitment. $90 million of loans. I make the point that Live Performance Australia,
the peak body, specifically proposed low interest concessional loans as an element of the package.
We listened to that as we listened widely to the arts and entertainment sector.
Because our focus here is on getting people back to work. What we want to do is be providing
the $75 million in grants, $90 million in loans, $50 million in our temporary interruption
fund for screen and television, film and television production, so that arts companies, events
producers, promoters, can start the work of putting on shows, planning for shows. It costs
money to hire a venue, to hire cast and crew, to market the show. We want to get economic
activity going again in the arts and entertainment sector. It's a major employer and, of course,
Australians want to see the performers they love on
the stage and on the road doing what they do so well.
SPEERS: I'll come to that, but I'm not sure that answers the question as to why you've
capped the money. $75 million in grants, but they'll have to fight against themselves to
get that money. Why have you capped these grants but not some of the other programs?
FLETCHER: In terms of JobSeeker and JobKeeper...
SPEERS: And HomeBuilder.
FLETCHER: If I talk about JobSeeker and JobKeeper...
SPEERS: HomeBuilder as well is a better comparison.
FLETCHER: ...specifically about supporting people through the period when activity in
many sectors, including arts and entertainment is flat or non-existent. I mean in arts and
entertainment venues closed, perfomances cancelled, artists lost their gig. We have got that set
of arrangements in place. Our package for arts and
entertainment, the $250 million, is about getting activity restarted again. It's $250
million over one year David, so that's a very
SPEERS: Yes you've said that, minister. Sorry just to interrupt, the question is - why
have you capped the money for the arts sector but not for the construction sector?
FLETCHER: It's perfectly standard to allocate an amount of money for a particular policy
outcome. That's what we've done here...
SPEERS: But it's not standard. You've done a very different thing with HomeBuilder, that's
my point?
FLETCHER: HomeBuilder addresses one issue, the arts and entertainment addresses another
set of issues. We've consulted very widely with the sector and a whole range of bodies
have endorsed what we've done. I mentioned Live Performance Australia...
SPEERS: Sorry, did they say that the funding should be capped did they? Did any of them
tell you it should be capped? I'm wondering why you capped it?
FLETCHER: What we've done is allocated funding for a specific purpose up to a specific amount
which is perfectly standard practice in government....
SPEERS: But it's not what you've done with HomeBuilder and any other package?
FLETCHER: I'll leave questions about HomeBuilder to the responsible minister.
SPEERS: And you're responsible for this sector. So why have you capped this one....
FLETCHER:..That is for construction. Because we believe that the amount of funding that
is being provided will stimulate new shows, new events and new production and get new
activity going. So we've carefully calibrated it and consulted across the sector. If you
talk to somebody like Michael Cassel, the producer of Harry
Potter, they had nine months of near full houses in Melbourne. That's economic activity,
that's jobs for the backstage crew, the front of house, ushers, box office, the sound and
lighting.
SPEERS: Sure, but if they get a grant, someone else won't. That's the point. They might be
eligible under the criteria, but because you've capped it, there are winners and there are
going to be losers. That's the whole point of putting a cap in place - you have to pick
the winners.
FLETCHER: We've assessed the level of funding here. It's very substantial funding and it's
going to have a significant impact in restarting activity in the arts sector. Let's recognise
that there's a lead time in getting new productions going. So we've taken this decision now....
SPEERS: Just on that - there is a lead time. And we're yet to see a road map developed
for reopening venues. It could take 6-12 months for some venues to reopen. So will the money
be available through these grants before venues reopen?
FLETCHER: So what we need to do is operate on two tracks - getting the protocols in place
so activity can recommence. Already, museums and galleries have started to reopen. We've
got the National Museum, the National Gallery of Australia are open, states and territories
have some museums and galleries open. We've got a
great set of protocols in place for film and television. Our film school has led that work
across the sector so that productions can commence in a socially distanced way....
SPEERS: I'll come back to that. But for Harry Potter show, you mentioned the Harry Potter
show. We don't know when they'll be able to get a venue.
FLETCHER: We don't.
SPEERS: So will the money flow before that, or not?
FLETCHER: It's on two tracks. So yes, the money will be, we'll be assessing grants.
We'll be establishing the guidelines and assessing grants. We want people to start working on
the new productions and new shows, because we've got to overcome a couple of hurdles,
we've got to get, we've got to be consistent with the public
health advice, work out how we can have shows restarting, and the Prime Minister took to
National Cabinet on Friday a proposal to get work under way on that.
SPEERS: Yes, to start work on a road map. I'm just asking - will they get money before
the venue opens or not?
FLETCHER: It will happen in two tracks. So yes, we will be allocating money. We certainly
anticipate allocating money, even if we're not yet at the point when we're clear as to
when venues can open. Because this is about the next three months, six months, nine months
and beyond. Our arts and entertainment sector, we want to
get them back to work. There is a lead time, major employer, important to the broader economy.
And important to Australians' morale as well.
SPEERS: You mentioned the film and television sector, and there's a bit of money in your
package for them. But the big concern I hear from that sector is the quotas that have been
suspended for Australian television networks. They usually have to meet a quota of a certain
amount of Australian content, and children's content.
That was suspended some months ago. When will that resume?
FLETCHER: There's been no change to the 55% Australian content quota which applies to
commercial broadcasters. What we have temporarily suspended are the sub-quotas on drama, on
children's content and on documentaries. The reason for doing
that is because while productions have been suspended, the broadcasters can't acquire
that content, so they simply can't comply. One of the measures we announced this week,
of course, is about getting television and film production in Australia restarted, so
we will be assessing whether film and television production
has recommenced to the level that the broadcasters are then able to....
SPEERS: Well I'm told that production has resumed on programs like Neighbours, Wentworth,
Doctor Doctor, Back to the Rafters, Wakefield, Five Bedrooms, I've got a long list here
of production which is resuming. So when will those content quotas come back into play so
that that can be commissioned?
FLETCHER: And it's a very good thing that production is recommencing and the measures
we announced this week will stimulate imore productioon....
SPEERS: What about the quotas? When will they be back?
FLETCHER: We will review that, and I said at the time we made that announcement, we
would make a decision before the end of this year as to whether it would be for this calendar
year or whether it would extend to the next calendar year.
SPEERS: But you appreciate that you need to produce something this year if it's going
to be on the screen next year. So will there be a quota next year....
FLETCHER: Can I make one other point, David? We also have a substantial piece of work under
way with an options paper from Screen Australia and the Australian Communications and Media
Authority on what our arrangements are in relation to supporting Australian content.
A range of options being considered. One of the
questions there is - should there be an obligation on Netflix and the streaming services? So
we've got a piece of significant policy work there that we want to work through as well.
SPEERS: That's an interesting debate. But sorry - my question was - will there be content
quotas next year?
FLETCHER: A decision on that will be made later this year, and information on that will
be provided to industry participants at the appropriate time.
SPEERS: The National Gallery of Australia announced a round of redundancies during the
week as well. 30 jobs will go. Is the middle of a recession the right time to be continuing
with an efficiency dividend for cultural institutions like the National Gallery?
FLETCHER: Well, the National Gallery receives funding from the Australian Government as
part of our almost $750 million of funding for the arts. And then it is the job of board
and management of the National Gallery, as it is of all portfolio agencies, to determine
how that funding is allocated. Of course, redundancies are always
difficult. And that is true for any organisation, and for those who are made redundant. But
at the same time, what we need to see is institutions like the National Gallery developing and
implementing a long-term plan.
SPEERS: My question was whether the efficiency dividend you put in place is still a good
idea in the middle of a recession?
FLETCHER: The efficiency dividend has been a long standing part of how governments, both
Liberal and Labor, manage public finances.
SPEERS: But we're now in a recession - first time in 30 years. I'm sure everyone is aware
of that. Is now a good time for an efficiency dividend?
FLETCHER: I'm not here to suggest there's going to be any change to the general principle
of having efficiency dividends. It's been a long standing part of how the public finances
are managed. So that taxpayers money is...
SPEERS: Not in recessions, though. Not in recessions.
FLETCHER: Well, it is a long standing tool of public policy management, and it is there
because we need to be careful with taxpayer's money. And it's appropriate discipline, through
the budgetary process, that applies right across-the-board - not just to arts and culture,
but applies across just about the entire suite...
SPEERS: Except that the Government, in fairness, is spending unprecedented amounts, racking
up record levels of debt in many areas of the economy right now - not least through
JobSeeker and JobKeeper and so on. Let me turn to the ABC. Is now the right time to
persist with a funding freeze when we're in the middle of a
recession?
FLETCHER: Let's be clear - the ABC has stable and secure funding of over $1 billion a year.
That funding is rising every year during the current 3-year funding period that we are
presently in.
SPEERS: Let me pick you up on that. Because I know, you've been arguing that point this
week that funding is rising and the Prime Minister even said, "There is no cut." Let
me read from the 2018-19 budget which talks about the saving that was being made in the
ABC budget of $83.7 million. The budget paper says, "This
measure reduces funding to the ABC by $14.6 million this financial year. $27.8 million
next financial year and $41.3 million," It says "reducing funding". Is the budget paper
correct?
FLETCHER: You're not the first ABC journalist to quote that particular piece of text to
me this week. In fact you're about the fourth. And while I commend ABC journalists for your
passionate commitment to the institution that you work for, and the ABC is very important
and our Government backs it strongly, that's why it has
strong and stable funding.
SPEERS: Maybe the reason you're being questioned about this - you're the minister responsible,
Paul Fletcher.
FLETCHER: My point is - as you, yourself, said earlier in the show, 6,000 redundancies
at Qantas this week, redundancies across the economy.
SPEERS: You're not responsible for Qantas or other companies. You are responsible for
funding the ABC.
FLETCHER: We are in the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. So I think it's
appropriate to keep this in context. We have secure and increasing funding for the ABC.
SPEERS: OK, but again, the budget paper says, "Reduces funding."
FLETCHER: That same extract makes it clear that funding is being maintained, and indeed,
since that, we announced $43.7 million in last year's budget - additional to the ABC
- for regional and local news gathering. So the ABC is very important. We back it strongly.
But let's recognise that we're at a time when across the economy
and across the media sector, these are tough times. Many media businesses have seen revenues
drop by 10%, 20% or more.
SPEERS: That's true.
FLETCHER: Many are relying on JobKeeper.
SPEERS: But you're not responsible for funding them. You are responsible for funding the
ABC and it sounds like you're still arguing that the funding is increasing when the budget
paper says funding is being reduced. Even if you include the dollar figures here, it
is not a real funding increase, is it?
FLETCHER: The budget paper is very clear, the budget numbers are very clear - we're
in a 3-year funding period right now, and funding is going up every year during that
period. The ABC receives more funding now...
SPEERS: Not in real terms, though, minister. (CROSS-TALK) Let's not be tricky here. The
funding increase is so small, it's less than 0.3% in real terms. That's not an increase,
is it?
FLETCHER: David, the ABC has stable and growing funding, which no other media organisation
in the country has. So while we can debate the technicalities - let's focus on the big
issue here. There is significant funding for the ABC because what it does is important.
That's why we back it. I welcome the ABC's 5-year plan this week
which said that there will be a greater commitment to outer urban, suburban and regional areas.
I welcome the commitment that 75% of employees will be outside of Ultimo, because Sydney
is not Australia, and Ultimo is not Sydney...
SPEERS: Just on that point, the ABC managing director, David Anderson, wrote to you in
March after the black summer bushfires and requested specific funding for regional services.
I've been told by your National Party Cabinet colleagues that they were not made aware of
this request. Why not?
FLECTCHER: David, agencies within a minister's portfolio routinely put proposals. That's
as it should be. Not every proposal that comes forward gets supported. But let me make it
clear - the ABC has done very important work and will continue to do very important work
in regional Australia. It's got over 50 bureaus around the
country, be it Bundaberg or Alice Springs or Toowoomba to mention three that I've
been in the last couple of years, there are many more. And indeed, in its 5-year strategic
plan, the ABC talks about how it is going to be using its very substantial existing
funding to continue to serve regional Australia. Can I make the point, too...
SPEERS: There concerns about this. The New South Wales Nationals Leader and Deputy Premier
John Barilaro has written to the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister, I've got
a copy of his letter he, he says, "To ignore this funding request for regional areas is
incomprehensible. I write to you both urgently requesting that
the cuts on the ABC be reversed because of the devastating impact this will have on regional
Australia." What's your response to John Barilaro?
FLETCHER: I would say two things. There is no cut. I make the point again - funding is
stable.
SPEERS: That's now how he sees it, but anyway....
FLETCHER: The second point is that we need to look at both commercial media and the ABC.
Both sectors providing very important service to regional communities. We've got the $50
million public interest news gathering program, public interest news gathering in regional
Australia for television, radio and newspapers. We've
completed the assessment of the grant applications. I can announce today that the recipients of
the funding will be informed today that they'll be receiving funding. There's $20 million
going to regional commercial television.
SPEERS: How have you chosen which journalists in regional areas are getting money, given
the Government's well documented problems with grant schemes? The Auditor-General, of
course, exposing those with the sports rorts. How have you decided which journalists in
which areas are going to get government money?
FLETCHER: So the funding goes to broadcasters and newspapers. We've received applications.
There is clear grant guidelines that link the amount of funding to the revenue of the
organisation. So over 90 newspaper publishers funded. Five television broadcasters, 17 radio
broadcasters. That funding will start to flow into bank
accounts in early July as soon as the grant agreements are agreed. If newspaper titles
were suspended, publication must recommence before the funding flows. But as a result
of the public interest news gathering program, we will see newspapers reopening in country
towns. That is good news in a sector which is under
real pressure, but provides such an important service in regional Australia and around the
country.
SPEERS: A final one, minister. There's been an enormous increase in Internet usage during
the pandemic. The NBN appears to have held up relatively well in most parts. You are
announcing today, also some extra funding for e-safety?
FLETCHER: Yes, an extra $10 million for the eSafety Commissioner. We've seen an explosion
in Internet usage. Traffic over the NBN up around 70% during the day with lots of people
working and studying from home. In the main, the extra Internet usage is a very good thing.
A small proportion of human interactions online are
bad ones, as offline interactions are. That's why the eSafety Commissioner is there to support
Australians who have been the victim of cyber bullying, unauthorised sharing of intimate
images and so on. esafety.gov.au. Lots of good practical tips. An additional $10 million
of funding from the Morrison Government for their
important work.
SPEERS: Paul Fletcher thanks for joining us.
FLETCHER: Thanks very much