- What your challenges are, what you have already done,
and in a perfect world, what would you love to see,
what would you love to learn or see happen today?
- So I can handle her okay.
But nothing like my other two birds.
I've only had her for two years.
She's twelve years old.
- Okay.
- I'd like to be able to handle her more easily.
- Okay.
- And also for her to be able to interact
better with other people,
because that's been a real problem.
Every time I go away, there's been a few incidents
where she's become very aggressive.
(upbeat music)
- Cool. Well, yeah, we can definitely help.
And then as far as handling her better,
I'd love to kind of know what,
what have you guys done formal training wise?
Have you been to classes?
Do you have any of our,
any of our courses?
Have you watched our YouTube?
Kind of want to get a feel for where you're at with that?
- So no formal classes.
I've been watching
your YouTube stuff for a couple of years.
But with my other two birds, I think I was lucky
because they're both hand raised
and they're just super easy.
She is hand raised too,
but she was with one lady for ten years.
- Okay
So that's been a bit
of a challenge to get her to bond with me,
and my sister for my birthday
got me your hormonal birds DVD.
- Oh, okay.
So we've watched that
and we've started doing some
of the stuff, and it seems to be helping.
- [Rayleigh] Okay. And you've never touched trained her?
Like never done anything with a target?
Have you done anything?
- We've started.
- [Rayleigh] You did? Okay.
- We have started a little bit.
But I think we're kind of stuck now.
- She kinda like, you'll get a, get her to go back
to her cage but she won't go in.
She'll fly to the top if you're tapping it with a stick.
- [Rayleigh] Okay.
- [Dave] Okay.
- So we've got her touching it gently.
She was doing a spin,
but we had a bit of trouble with the spin.
Cause we were doing it up above, and then
she was doing that thing where they want you to mount them.
So that seemed to actually be triggering her hormones.
Like she seemed to think that if we were doing a spin
up above, that meant we were ready to mate.
I dunno,
- [Rayleigh] Huh?
- Like the hand was going to
- [Rayleigh] Pet her or something? Okay.
- So ...
- [Dave] Was that with you training specifically,
or anybody else?
- Both of us.
So we found out if we do the spin, it's a bit awkward
with that training stand, you kind of have to put the stick
underneath and get her to turn.
- [Dave] Okay.
- She'll kinda pause when she's back to you.
She'll just pause and tilt a bit.
- (Rayleigh chuckles)
- Not as much as if you had your hand up above.
She just seems to wait for you to mount her
if you have your hand up above.
- [Dave] Cage covers are something
that are really overlooked.
What it does, especially
if you have one bird that is hormonal,
especially Eclectus in a smaller enclosure,
there
and they breed all year round,
and all you're doing
by putting a cover on it is saying, hey,
here's your nest box.
And then questioning why it's defending the nest box.
So really setting up a sleeper room or sleeper
cage where she can get that full twelve hours of sleep.
Okay. I would be curious to see the difference
between a few different treats.
We've got a whole bunch up there
that we can try some different ones.
- Yep.
- Our job as trainers is to basically try to find what
that highest value treat reward is,
and kind of the top two or three,
and work with those in a way that keeps her anticipating
and wanting to do the training sessions.
And that gives you a little bit more sense of control,
and it makes the whole scenario a little bit more
predictable so that you can have somebody else
do target training through the cage when you're away.
- Yep.
- And the bird understands everything
and is really anticipating that high value reward.
So I'm kind of thinking where I want to start is
just see what your basic interaction would look like
and we can kind of clean up some of that.
And then if it needs to be adjusted based on what I see,
if she's around females versus males, or even kids
versus adults, and kind of just get an overall sense.
Cause I'm, it sounds like you've done a lot,
and I'm wondering if there's some holes
in the training that we can clean up and fix.
The requirement that I want you to control is to
read her body language,
and if she looks nervous about me or a chair or something,
it's your job
she's telling you like, hey,
I'm not comfortable with this
get that out of my scenario.
So, so that's something that you'll,
we'll just use this opportunity to enhance.
- [Penny's owner] And she likes women.
So we'll just hang around,
and she'll just sit quite happily.
Can you touch gentle?
Well, hold on, let me get the treat ready.
That's the first problem.
Gentle.
Good girl.
She'd have wanted them for that (indistinct).
Gentle.
(click)
- For those of you wondering what a jumper is?
It's a sweatshirt.
(Rayleigh giggles)
- So I'm trying to get her to move around,
but that's probably not the best perch for her.
- [Rayleigh] No, not places to go.
- [Dave] You can take those feeder bowls off the top.
- Yeah.
- [Dave] If looks like they just don't unscrew.
- Penny come.
- And also I'm a bit confused about
what words to use.
- [Dave] Okay.
- And I think we've been using inconsistent words as
well when we're training her.
So I probably need to fix that up.
Gentle.
(click)
Good girl.
So I'll show you what I mean about when I try to
get her to twirl.
- [Rayleigh] Yeah.
- If use the stick up high.
Turn
She might not even do it at all.
Turn
- [Dave] Interesting.
- [Penny's owner] And then she becomes fixated on that.
So, let's see if she'll do it for down low.
Turn
Come on. Turn.
She actually does this quicker for him
than what she does for me.
It's slow for me.
Good girl.
All the way.
Come on.
Turn
And this is sometimes a problem when she stays here
and has her back to me is
that then she seems to think the same thing again.
(click)
Good girl.
- [Dave] Okay, I am noticing a couple things real quick
I'll just point out.
First of all, what you just did was perfect.
A lot of people
they stop what they're doing for the conversation
but they're still in the birds training bubble
and it's very confusing to the bird.
You took a step out,
so that's naturally something you did.
So, that's great.
So when you first took her out, you took the stick
and you put it in her mouth
and then you rewarded that.
The next thing you said,
ahhhh, I'm still trying to get her to move,
to touch the stick.
- [Penny's owner] Yep.
- Yet, what's happening is she did the spin
and then you put it in her mouth to tick tick click.
- [Penny's owner] Okay.
- So, there's a pattern
that you are doing unconsciously
of making it easier for her.
- [Penny's owner] Yep.
- And so what I would do
- [Rayleigh] It's almost like she's learned to wait.
- Yeah.
- [Rayleigh] For the stick to touch her
versus you wait for her to touch the stick.
Does that makes sense?
- So we could almost start
from the top and retrain the target.
- [Penny's owner] Yep.
- And that'll just clean it up.
- [Dave] See how she's anticipating
you putting it there almost?
(click)
There we go.
- Ah, good girl.
- [Dave] So now double that distance,
when she's finished.
Ready?
It's that anticipation, right?
- [Rayleigh] Yeah. That's crazy.
I never seen that.
- [Dave] Okay. And you still,
you were still trying to like come on touch the damn st ...
- [Penny's owner] Probably.
I think I've ended up doing that just
cause I got impatient, to be honest.
- [Dave] Yeah. And that's okay.
So don't be afraid.
One of the things that people do is they want
their bird to succeed a hundred percent of the time.
That's so different than our culture in America.
You show up to the game you get a trophy.
It doesn't count.
If you're a loser, you're a loser.
Right? You gotta earn the trophy.
So don't make your bird a loser.
Does that make sense to everybody?
- [Rayleigh] Oh my God.
- So make, make sure, feel free to let her work for it.
So she actually gets to earn that trophy, you know?
And if she fails
she's going to realize that she has to try harder.
- [Penny's owner] Yeah.
- I thought so, definitely,
cause I've been trying to get her to wave
and I can't touch her foot with the stick,
cause she's just going for the stick.
If I'm like anywhere near her.
- [Dave] You're trying to use the stick for the wave?
- Yeah. Like just to like touch her foot.
- Well, I don't know if I'm doing it properly?
What I've been doing is lifting her foot
and clicking when she lets me lift it,
and hoping that she learns the wave that way.
But that may not be the right process.
- [Dave] That may be why you're getting some confusion.
- [Rayleigh} I'm confused just listening.
She never independently lifts her foot for me.
So I was trying to encourage her by lifting foot,
and she let me do it.
- [Rayleigh] When she ...
did she step up fairly easily for you?
- Onto my arm. Yeah.
Want me to do that?
- [Rayleigh] No, no, no.
It's okay.
I was just asking.
- [Dave] Yeah. We'll, get to the wave later,
but we'll we'll use either capturing to get the wave.
So like in other words, she's sitting there in the same room
you're typing on the computer and you're keeping an eye
on her and she reaches up to scratch, you click.
Then you go over and give her a treat.
That would be capturing.
You're taking a picture with the clicker of the exact moment
that you want to see more of.
Another way that you can get the wave is
by offering the bird to step up,
and the moment she lifts, click.
And don't, don't allow her to
step up.
But the moment she starts to lift, click, and give a treat.
So we can, we can work on that later.
But the target stick is strictly for touch this specific
part of your body to this specific part of the items,
the stick, like, so your beaks touching
the end of the stick.
(indistinct), we clicked a little too slow,
and so we put touch the stick with your foot on cue.
So which is okay, it's still, the bird would go over
and then put her foot on the stick,
and then that was what she would do to target.
So kind of think of the stick is its only purpose is
for your birds to touch her beak to the end of that stick.
- [Penny's owner] Okay.
- [Dave] If you're trying to get her to move six inches,
and she moves five and a half.
- [Penny's owner] Don't.
- Don't do the last half inch for her.
Wait a minute
or 10 seconds,
five seconds
Allow her to fail, and then step out of her training bubble
and let her think about what she's done.
Let her think about why she failed
and then you can try it again.
- [Penny's owner] So I'll go like three inches now? Or?
- [Dave] Where do you think she is most likely
to be successful?
- [Penny's owner] Say anything?
- [Dave] You don't need to.
- I'm going to move (mumbles).
(click click)
- [Parrot Mom] Good girl.
You still even moved it the last half inch for her,
so that's that's a big reason why
you're getting a lack of
full response.
- [Penny's owner] Okay. All right.
- [Dave] Because she knows you'll finish it for her.
And step back.
Cool. So that is as important as the successes,
if not more important.
- [Penny's owner] Okay.
- [Dave] Just allow her to have opportunity to fail.
Cause now she's like, wait, usually you do the rest for me.
Why didn't I get the food?
- [Penny's owner] Yeah.
- [Dave] So now she's going to have to
figure out how to work harder.
Watch her body move.
(click, click)
- [Penny's owner] Good girl.
- Something. Something a lot of people
aren't aware of or forget,
is when you train a new behavior
you are not only capturing that new behavior,
but you're pairing it with the emotional state at that time.
So if you're training, when she's really hormonal,
you're putting hormonal touch the stick on cue.
Which might be why she might be triggered by that training,
because she's so used to being trained in a hormonal state.
That it is actually putting her into that state.
- [Penny's owner] Yeah.
- So, as you become more and more aware of those
hormonal triggers, you want to
be capturing the moment just
before the hormones trigger the next phase.
- [Penny's owner] Yeah.
- [Dave] If you feel like you're losing her attention,
feel free to just flash her the treats real quickly,
so she was like, oh yeah, we'll get to that.
- [Penny's owner] Okay.
- [Dave] It just puts her into that state.
Doesn't it?
- [Rayleigh] You see that sleepy eye that she does?
Almonds, pine nuts, pumpkin seeds,
sunflower seeds and walnuts.
I'm going for pine nuts.
Oh, that's almonds.
She's just going to go in a row.
I think that confirmed, almonds.
- [Dave] Yeah.
- [Rayleigh] Has she ever had pine nuts?
- [Dave] Mix them together for me real quick.
Now let's see.
If it was convenience or if it was ...
- [Rayleigh] She looks like she's
never tasted that before.
She picked out the pine nut again.
- [Dave] Yeah. Look at that.
She's like, what is this ...
- [Rayleigh] Phenomenon.
- [Dave] Expensive treat.
So let's try almonds and pine nuts moving forward.
And I think we should train on the flat surface to try.
It's less likely to trigger hormones.
Do you normally train on a flat surface at all?
- [Penny's owner] I haven't,
but I can now that my kitchen bench is clear.
- [Dave] Yeah. If you haven't,
that might be one more thing to get us away
from triggering hormones.
- All right.
So I should have let her choose which treats she wants?
- [Dave] Yeah.
- Okay.
- [Rayleigh] Wow.
Just like real (indistinct)
or just stay there with them.
Dump your hand.
- Dump it?
- [Rayleigh] Like go.
So she's standing on your hand.
- Okay. Yep. Yep.
Keep going.
- Like dump my hand?
Like just drop the whole thing?
(Rayleigh laughs)
[Rayleigh] She's stoked about this new game.
- [Dave] She is. Yeah.
Do you want to try more on the, on the flat surface.
- Yep.
If I can get her to step off.
Sometimes that's an issue.
- [Dave] Try to see if you can target her off.
- Sometimes I have to lure her off with a treat.
- [Rayleigh] There we go.
- There we go.
Is that what I'm meant to do?
- [Rayleigh] Yeah, give her a treat for that.
Yeah, here's her treats back.
- Recycle her treat.
- [Dave] She's not getting hormonal here.
So
- Yeah, she's doing less of the back up.
- [Dave] So let's try to get her moved.
And we can move all that other stuff, too,
if you need.
- Penny.
(click click)
- [Dave] Cool and then just let her pick one.
- [Rayleigh] Just let her get one now.
- [Dave] All right. I think we should end the session
there for a minute.
- And we'll just put her on a stand.
- Good girl.
- [Rayleigh] Uh hmmmm.
(click click)
- [Dave] And since we've got her attention here,
go and drop her.
Since we've got her attention here,
you probably won't need to flash the treats as long.
- [Penny's owner] Anymore. Okay.
- [Dave] Yeah.
She, she's really willing to work.
So the only reason I would do that is if
I'm kind of losing the bird for a second
or the bird doesn't realize we're going to do some training.
- [Penny's owner] Okay.
- Then I might start with a quick like,
Hey, remember what you were working for?
It's this.
But you're seeing her response is a lot better here anyway.
- [Rayleigh] So try putting her below the table
so that she's stepping up onto it.
- This is an issue sometimes
is she doesn't want to get off.
So is it easier to get them off on your hand?
- [Dave] Yeah.
- [Rayleigh] Yes.
- [Penny's owner] All right, let's try.
- [Dave] And so with this, since that's become an issue
just give her one treat
versus allowing her to pick.
(click)
- Whoops. I wasn't ready with that one, was I?
Good girl.
- [Dave] I feel like the response is lot better already.
- [Rayleigh] Yeah. Me too.
- Yeah, it is a lot better.
Let's try all the way down here.
(click)
Oh
Too far.
(click)
Good girl.
- [Dave] Yeah. It's exciting to see when
birds are succeeding here.
You've got all sorts of background noise.
You got the train, you got a lot of distractions.
And just that the fact that you've still got her focused
is really good.
Good. So I think the next test would be to
see how she responds with other people doing the target.
So let's try that.
I'll take the stick and the clicker from ya.
(background birds chirp)
- [Rayleigh] There we go.
- [Dave] And then you can go and give it to her.
I was going to
flash her a treat
but she was like, wait a second.
- [Penny's Owner] She was frozen like a statue.
- [Dave] Yeah.
- [Penny's Owner] Like with the toe pointed.
- [Dave] So we'll try to sound going back
to the right when she's finished.
- [Penny's owner] Did you want some as well?
- [Dave] Yeah, just in case you need to show her.
I think now she probably gets it a little bit more,
but there's a little curve ball.
(click)
Do you take one?
You do like to do that, huh?
Hold it nice and still.
(click)
- She's like, I want to hold onto it a little bit.
- Yeah.
That was one of the things that we really like to tell
is if she
if the birds are receptive to men, women, kids,
jinx
Then it shows that they really understand it.
And since she already had some
of the training anyway, we had a, a little advantage.
But the fact
that she's going all the way now and touching it
versus waiting for that last minute movement.
- Yeah.
- I think that's the first foundation
to then being able to have other people get her
where they want her to go,
versus her just getting part way there and stopping
and expecting the stick to come to her,
I think this will help you get her back in the cage
or strangers get her back in the cage.
(upbeat music)