MESSAGE WILL BE.
THE RUSSIANS ARE CLAIMING THE
IMAGES FROM DOUMA ARE FAKE.
>> Shepard: THANKS, JENNIFER.
LET'S GO TO JOHN ALTERMAN,
DIRECTOR OF THE MIDDLE EAST
PROGRAM AT THE CENTER FOR
STRATEGIC STUDIES.
A BIPARTISAN NONPROFIT RESEARCH
ORGANIZATION.
THANK YOU, SIR.
>> THANK YOU, SHEP.
>> Shepard: ARE WE RIGHT TO ASK
QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR
VIDEO AND THIS ATTACK?
I SAY THAT BECAUSE THE
GOVERNMENT AND NONE OF ITS
PIECES OR PARTS HAVE OR COME
FORWARD WITH ANYTHING SAYING
THIS IS DEFINITIVE.
THE DEFENSE SECRETARY SAYS WE'RE
STILL ASSESSING AND THE
PRESIDENT WARNS THE RUSSIANS THE
MISSILES ARE ON THE WAY.
>> I THINK THE PRESIDENT KNOWS
SOME THINGS THEY'RE NOT SAYING
AND THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE
KNOWS THINGS THEY'RE NOT SAYING.
THERE'S THE VIDEO EVIDENCE.
THERE MAY BE SOME OVERHEAD
EVIDENCE THAT A SATELLITE
IMAGERY THAT WE HAVE THAT WOULD
GIVE US A SENSE THAT WE
INTERCEPTED COMMUNICATIONS FROM
THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT OR FROM
VICTIMS.
YOU CAN VERIFY THAT THEY'RE
FIELDING THOSE SYMPTOMS AT THE
TIME.
I CAN IMAGINE THERE ARE A LOT OF
POSSIBLE STREAMS OF EVIDENCE
THAT WOULD REINFORCE IT.
WHAT THE U.N. IS TRYING TO DO IS
SAY LET'S GET IN, LET'S GET
NONPARTISAN OBSERVERS IN AND TRY
TO PROVE THIS AS A WAY OF MOVING
THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT.
I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING ON
THE U.S. GOVERNMENT SIDE MAY BE
WE'RE NOT EVEN GOING TO WAIT FOR
THAT.
THE PRESIDENT WILL ACT IN THE
TIME, PLACE AND MANNER OF HIS
CHOOSE.
>> Shepard: OVER THAN 500,000
POOH ARE DEAD.
THERE'S NO DENYING THAT.
THE QUESTION IS, HAVEN'T THERE
BEEN CHEMICAL ATTACKS REPEATEDLY
ACCORDING TO THESE SAME
ORGANIZATIONS BY THE DOZENS OVER
THIS TIME PERIOD?
>> THERE HAVEN'T BEEN FOR A
WHILE.
THE SYRIANS AGREED TO GET RID OF
THEIR CHEMICAL STOCKPILES.
THE RUSSIANS CERTIFIED THEY HAVE
GOT RID OF THEM AND IT HASN'T
HAPPENED.
SO THERE'S A DESIRE ON THE U.S.
SIDE AND THE FRENCH SIDE AND
OTHER COUNTRIES SAYING WE HAVE
TO DEMONSTRATE THIS IS NOT
ACCEPTABLE.
THE BROADER QUESTION, WHICH GOES
TO YOUR POINT ABOUT 500,000
HAVING DIED IN THE CONFLICT,
WHAT IS OUR STRATEGY TOWARDS
SYRIA IF WE'RE GOING TO STRIKE
SYRIA.
THERE'S NO QUESTION IN MY MIND
THAT BASHAR AL-ASSAD CAN
WITHSTAND A STRIKE.
WHAT WE TRYING TO DO WITH THE
STRIKE?
ARE WE SENDING A MESSAGE OR DO
WE HAVE A SENSE OF WHERE WE WANT
SYRIA TO GO WHAT OUR INTERESTS
ARE.
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU CAN DO A
MILITARY ATTACK VERY EASILY, BUT
THE REAL QUESTION IS WHAT IS
YOUR DESIRED EFFECT.
HAVING A DESIRED EFFECT REQUIRES
NOT JUST THE STRIKE BUT A
STRATEGY AND A FOLLOW-UP AND A
GOAL.
I'M NOT SURE THAT ALL OF THOSE
PIECES HAVE BEEN LINE UP YET.
>> Shepard: THERE'S SEVEN OR
SEVEN WARS GOING ON IN SYRIA AT
ONE TIME IF YOU FERRET IT OUT
AND COUNT THEM.
IF WE HAD A COHESIVE AND
STRATEGY IN SYRIA FROM THE VERY
BEGINNING OF THIS, CROSSING OVER
TWO ADMINISTRATIONS, NOBODY HAS
EVER GIVEN US WHAT IT IS.
WE'RE SAID TO BE SUPPORTING THE
SYRIAN REBELS WHO HAVE BEEN
NAMELESS AND FACELESS AND WE
HAVE NOT SAID THAT WE WANT
REGIME CHANGE OR THAT WE WANT TO
STOP THE AIR FORCE OR WE WANT TO
MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO LAUNCH
CHEMICAL STRIKES.
WE HAVEN'T SAID ANYTHING.
>> POINT OF FACT, WE'RE SAID
WHEN THE PRESIDENT SAYS ISIS
GONE, WE'RE GONE.
ALL THE THINGS YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT WITH THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT
HAVE NOT BEEN THE FOCUS OF THE
AMERICAN STRATEGY.
IT'S NOT CLEAR WHAT THE LEGAL
BASIS OF A BIG AMERICAN PUSH
TOWARDS REGIME CHANGE OR
AFFECTING THE POWER IN SYRIA.
ALL OF THOSE THINGS, CONGRESS
HASN'T AUTHORIZED IT.
I THINK THE GOVERNMENT --
NEITHER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION
OR THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS
REALLY ARTICULATED A STRATEGY.
I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE COME UP
WITH AN INTERNAL STRATEGY.
TO MY MIND, THIS IS ONE OF OUR
WEAKNESSES IN SYRIA.
WE HAVE BEEN SURE WHAT WE'RE NOT
DOING.
WE HAVEN'T BEEN CLEAR AT ALL ON
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO AND WHAT
OUR DESIRED END STATE IS.
A HORRIBLE THING IS TO PUT YOUR
MILITARY AT RISK AND TO PUT
SOLDIERS AT RISK WHEN YOU'RE NOT
BEING CLEAR WHAT ARE THEY TRYING
TO ACCOMPLISH.
WE CAN KILL AND DESTROY STUFF
LIKE NOBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD.
BUT IT HAS TO BE TOWARD A
PURPOSE.
THAT REQUIRES HAVING A STRATEGY
AND A SET OF GOALS.
THERE IN OUR ACTIONS IN SYRIA.
>> Shepard: BEFORE WE GO,
THERE'S A -- JOHN KIRBY, WHO WAS
A REAR ADMIRAL AND A
SPOKESPERSON FROM THE STATE
DEPARTMENT FROM 15 TO 17, A
GUEST ON THIS PROGRAM COUNTLESS
TIMES, WORKS AT CNN, BUT HE SENT
OUT A TWEET ABOUT THE
PRESIDENT'S TELEGRAPHING IN A
WAY HE SAID HE WOULDN'T.
JOHN KIRBY SAID THIS.
THERE'S A LOT NOT TO LIKE ABOUT
THE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF TWEETING
DETAILS.
WHAT BOTHERS ME IS THE CAVALIER
WAY HE SPOKES ABOUT THE USE OF
FORCE.
IT'S NOT A VIDEO GAME.
LIVES ARE AT STAKE HERE.
WAS THE PRESIDENT GIVING
HISTORICAL NORMS OUTS OF BOUNDS
HERE?
>> AGAIN, THERE'S NO QUESTION
THAT WE CAN STRIKE THINGS, WE
CAN DESTROY THINGS.
THE REAL QUESTION IS WHAT IS OUR
PURPOSE.
HOW DOES IT FIT IN.
HOW DOES THE STRIKE FIT IN TO A
BROADER SET OF ACTIONS THAT GET
YOU WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.
I UNDERSTAND THIS IS CERTAIN
NOVELTY IN BEING ABLE TO LAUNCH
THE STRIKE.
YOU HAVE TO DO IT FOR A PURPOSE.
IT HAS TO BE PART OF A SERIES OF
ACTIONS.
I DON'T THINK EITHER THE OBAMA
ADMINISTRATION OR THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN CLEAR
ENOUGH TO ITSELF LET ALONE TO
THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WHAT THE
SERIES OF ACTIONS IS AND WHAT
THE INTENDED OUTCOME IS.
>> Shepard: JOHN ALTERMAN FROM