In the last two years Israel has been thrown into a political whirlpool. One election cycle
after another, 4 campaigns within 2 years – no one managed to form a long lasting
coalition and Benjamin Netanyahu, elected prime minister in 2009, has managed to stay
in power.
And then came these two: The up-and-coming duo of Naftali Bennett and Yair Lapid have
already collaborated in the past, but now their partnership seems to have done the inconceivable
– unseat Netanyhu from premiership after 12 years in power.
A former director general of the settlers’ lobby organization, Yeshas council, Bennett
is considered a right-wing nationalist leader. Lapid on the other hand is a former NEWS anchor
and the son of a Holocaust survivor, and defines himself as a centrist. Where do Bennett and
Lapid, the politicians who aspire to lead Israel for the foreseeable future, stand on
key issues? Their interviews on Conflict Zone from 2015 and 2017 can give us a clue.
the big picture is that we are in our Jewish home here, ok? It´s been our Jewish home
for 3800 years.
even in the Arab world they know now that there's no way of going back to 1967 or to
1948. Things have changed”
Despite coming from two opposing political blocks, they actually are not too far apart.
What do they have in common and where do they disagree? Join us as we dig into the Conflict
Zone archive to learn more about the views they expressed in the past – and how that
might affect their actions in the future.
What do they think of … - The Peace Process,- Hamas and Gaza, -Jerusalem, -The Arab minority
The Peace Process . A long-term solution to then Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of
the most contested issues between Bennett and Lapid. What will the new government mean
for Palestinian statehood?
“You gave an interview last year. You were asked about the freezing peace processes.
A freeze that you supported. You said “The process was suicide, we saved the country”.
Looking at the violence today, it doesn´t look you saved the country at all, did you?
Well Tim, you know, for the past 100 years we´ve had roughly 40 rounds of violence with
radical Islam. In 1921, 1929,1936, 1939…
That´s the whole point. It´s not getting better, is it?
This is, this is nothing new and until the Muslim world accepts Israel’s right to exist,
we were here way before Islam even started, it will go on. But you know what? Amid all
these turbulence Israel is growing, Israel is thriving as it´s people. So I am very
optimistic.
>TS: And you want separation. This is your policy.
Yes.
Separation to bring about the Jewish majority. That you want in Israel. your policy is to
separate from the Palestinians.
From the Palestinians under the two states solution.
What if large numbers don't want to separate what are you going to do? Forcible removal?
No. Anyway, you're asking if we will do anything that is unilateral? I don't think so. I don't
think it's the right move. I think we should...
You don't think so or are you definitely not going to do it?
I think... No, we're not going to do anything unilateral. We tried that in the disengagement,
as I said before, and it did not work out that well.
I´m not suggesting to form a Palestinian state in the midst of Israel. I think that
would be a profound mistake. I vehemently oppose the idea of forming another failed
Arab State in the heart of Israel. That´s crazy! All the rest are falling apart and
disintegrating into tribal structures. So, here we´re going to try another artificial
one? Why? Do I want to commit suicide?
More than a hundred and thirty countries have recognized, at the UN, have recognized Palestine
as a state. And you want the Palestinians to give up forever on this idea of a Palestinian
State? You´re too late, aren´t you?
No, I´m not.
You´re way too late for this.
Tim, let me tell you something, I have four children: a ten-year-old, eight-year-old,
six- and three. We live just ten minutes from the proposed Palestinian state. If we were
to form a Palestinian State according to these a hundred and thirty countries and place a
Radical Islamic State just ten minutes from my house, I would put my children at harms
way. That´s…
It doesn’t have to be a Radical Islamic State…
That’s not going to happen!
Does it? It doesn’t have to be!
Well, it does. In La La Land, it´s not; in reality it is. Because we´re not living in
a Soap Opera, Tim. We live in Israel. We live in the heart of the toughest place in the
world.
What I'm saying is, you may not like the partner but you have to work with what it is. I wish
we had, a thing Yitzhak Rabin said, that before me, I wish we had the conflict with the Swedes
then we can solve it in a much easier fashion. We have we have a dispute with the Palestinians
and we have to separate from the Palestinians and build the highest wall possible.
You said in January last year “If I was prime minister tomorrow that’s a deal I
would make, building in the blocks in Ma’ale Adumim, Ariel exchange for a freeze outside
the blocks.”
True.
Did you think the world is gonna buy this?
Yes.
Why? All the settlements are still seen as illegal and an obstacle to peace in the outside
world, all of them. Whether they’re in the block or outside the block.
Why? Because… there are two theories… There are two theories, one that is considering
the entire settlements, the entire territories as one thing and one that is saying there’s
a difference. Things that happened. This is the Bush Sharon letter from 2001, saying there
is a difference between the big blocks and between what is happening outside the big
blocks. What is happening outside the big blocks is probably the future state of Palestine.
Inside the big blocks it’s Israel and gonna stay Israel. Let’s not pretend it’s the
same. Both Bennet and Lapid see Hamas as a destructive
force in the Gaza Strip. Will they manage to form a new solution to this persistent
challenge? We have done in Gaza whatever the world has
asked us to do. We left, we dismantled the settlements. The army left.
You went from standing inside to standing outside the gate.
Let me finish. Let me finish. You know what: we even left them with 3000 greenhouses for
them to build an economy for themselves. And instead of doing so, they have built training
camps for the Islamic Jihad then fired until this moment more than 15000 rockets on our
children. And.. and.. You have blockaded them since 2007.
Yes, we are... Yes, we are... And you don't even let cement in.
We are protecting ourselves. And we do that. And you stop jam going in.
Are we not allowed to protect the life of our children. Is this something only the other
side has the right to? What is happening is people are using, or misusing should I say,
all their rights that being given in order to promote terror. So if you're allowing them
to do all sorts of movements in Gaza, each and every time they've misused it.
In 2005 we did the big experiment in Gaza. We did all three things the international
community wanted. We pulled back to the sixty-seven lines; we pulled out all our soldiers; and,
you know what, we expelled eight thousand Jews from their homes by force. And what did
we get? Days after… And you still control everything that moves
into Gaza and goes out of Gaza. You stood outside.
That´s blatantly wrong. No, because what happened…
Even David Cameron, a few years ago, called it the prison. Said it was a great prison!
Tim… Tim… It was going to be the Singapore of the Middle East, it was open. But then
they… : What, with you guarding it?
No! With you guarding it, it was going to be the
Singapore of the Middle East? No, you´re wrong. Besides the fact that you´re
stating wrong facts, everything´s okay. The reality is quite the contrary: when we gave
them Gaza, we said go build a Singapore. And, you know what? They shot thousands of missiles
from there onto Israel –which is why, yes, we need to defend ourselves. What do you do
when every centimeter of land that you hand the radical Islamists turns into a base of
Iran and radical Islam? What do you do? With the world’s eyes on Jerusalem, a Bennett-Lapid
government will aspire to maintain the status quo in the Israeli capital. Will they manage
to keep the city peaceful ? Tim, the only place in the Middle East that
exercises full religious rights for all religions, Christianity and Muslims and Jews is Israel.
So, no one should tell us how to govern temple mount. Temple mount is open for Muslims to
pray and roughly two and a half Muslims have prayed at temple in the past year, while only
about 12.000 Jews. That’s just let put things in proportions.
Well, let´s also point out, that there is a large amount of rabbinical advice on this
and views that say that Jews should actually pray on the Temple Mount, isn´t it?
Wow, you know, now you are representing the rabbis, that´s a whole new level, the..
You know this, you know this, you know this, you know this. but this is the status quo,
isn´t it? That Jews do not, by and large, pray at the Temple Mount.
I don’t dispute the status quo. It will go on.
I think Israel is a Jewish state. I think part of being a Jewish state and Jewish democracy
is making sure the minorities will have their rights.
the larger issue and this is something your president has drawn attention to. He says
“Israel is sick with racism” these are his words. He said last year, he is also horrified
by the thuggishness that has permeated the national dialogue, why don’t you speak about
that? I will. You know we have one and half millions
Arabs living in Israel. They exercise full equal rights. They have enjoyed all the privileges
that every Jew. They vote.. The president says there is severe discrimination!
Yes, and I think there are many people in this country who said racist things. What?
Do you want me to defend now every Israeli? I am out there. I'm fighting racism in this
country, I'm fighting prejudice in this country. I did things for the Arab citizens of this
country and I will fight for their right, for the equal rights whenever I can.
I always believe that reality is stronger than any words. You know, you know very well,
that one and a half million Israeli Arabs vote for the Knesset, they pay taxes in Israel;
That’s the reality. There´s no place better on Earth for Arabs than in Israel. We have
to realize that no one is going anywhere. The Jews are here to stay; the Arabs are here
to stay. We have to live together.