- There's a line in the documentary
that blew my mind so hard.
When your parents are fighting
and you're growing up around that,
and your father says?
- "We fight because we love each other.
This is what people who are in love do."
I was so young when I heard it,
and it stuck with me and it clearly affected my mother.
And I've spoken to my father about this since,
and you know, in that moment,
maybe he was thinking he was saying the right thing
to try to calm down a young child,
but you know, it's these moments and these things.
For me, the hardest part, I always tell people,
as a parent is the things you pass on to your children
that you don't mean to.
And it's unavoidable,
it's just there's no perfect parent,
there's no perfect survivor,
there's no perfect person.
You know, we all make mistakes,
and that's why I was very proud of my parents
for putting themselves out there like this.
And you know, I know my parents grew up in a time
where therapy was seen as something to be ashamed of
and it meant you were crazy
and nobody talked about these feelings.
It was sort of a different approach to parenting, (chuckles)
which is just like,
"Do as I say, not as I do," you know?
Like, "Don't speak until you're spoken to,"
that kind of mentality. - And they were young too.
- Exactly.
- And that's what is so incredible about the journey
that you do open up with around this incredible subject
of what you went through
by including your family
and how you've grown up and learned together as a unit.
Now, then your mom and dad split up,
you guys go to Los Angeles,
your dad and your brother stay in North Carolina,
and you are 19 when you meet this person
who is so captivating. - Mm-hmm.
- So alluring.
This man is giving you cameras.
- [Evan] Mm-hmm.
- You know, you think you're making art.
- Yes. - You're in a place
where you can do some substances,
feel free, take every,
feel that abandonment, that wildness.
Was that a part of the entry point?
- Of course, yeah.
You lure people in with this promise of
this is a better way, this is freedom,
you can be who you really are,
we're gonna have fun,
we're gonna do this a different way.
And I think that's what drew me to Brian,
'cause I thought, wow,
look what he's doing for young people
and the way he's challenging the status quo
and social norms.
And so that's what,
you know, I looked at him as a mentor,
as somebody- - And it's sexy and it's hot.
He's in front of all these crowds,
you buy and you drink the Kool-Aid.
- You drink the Kool-Aid.
And the analogy we often use
is the lobster slowly boiling in the pot.
You don't just stick it straight into the boiling water.
You stick it in cold water,
and you're just slowly turning the heat up
until suddenly you're like,
(chuckles) I'm sorry, are you cooking me alive?
And that is sort of the analogy
for gaslighting and grooming and brainwashing
in that you're lured
into this false sense of security at first,
and this is why abusive relationships can be so complicated
because so much of the abuse is disguised as love
and that this is for your own good
or you don't know what you're talking about.
Somebody really takes control,
and as somebody that felt so inferior
to everybody my whole life
and just conditioned not to trust myself
and to trust the adults in the room.
And then I dated somebody that was 20 years older than me.
He, to me, he's the adults in the room
and he probably knows better than me,
and so they made me trust them.
You know, they were telling me things that happened to them,
and then you feel like,
oh wow, they've shared something so intimate.
I'm gonna share something so intimate.
And then you start giving up your secrets,
your vulnerabilities.
And it's the wolf in sheep's clothing.
They're sitting there saying,
"Yeah, no, absolutely."
But really they're mining information,
and they're going, okay,
so that's what she's insecure about.
Okay, she's got this relationship
that's broken down in her life,
I can attack that.
And then, oh, okay, that's what she's afraid of,
so I'll just feed into that.
And we don't think this way,
and so we can't imagine that somebody else would,
but people do.
- When you are a kind, altruistic,
loving, caring person,
you don't believe that other people are out
to get you. - No.
- Innocent. - That's why you can't see it.
- And you want the best
out of people. - Yes.
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♪ Oh, oh ♪