>> Stephen: HEY, WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY.
MY GUEST TONIGHT SPENT NEARLY 25 YEARS IN CONGRESS WORKING FOR
THE STATE OF OHIO, SERVED FOUR YEARS AS SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE,
AND JUST WROTE A MEMOIR ABOUT IT ALL CALLED "ON THE HOUSE."
PLEASE WELCOME TO "A LATE SHOW," FORMER SPEAKER JOHN BOEHNER.
MR. SPEAKER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE!
>> STEPHEN, IT'S GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.
>> Stephen: I GOT THE BOOK.
I GOT MY OWN DRINK HERE.
I GOT A LITTLE WELLER 12 BOURBON.
YOU GOT ANYTHING RIGHT THERE?
>> I'VE GOT A LITTLE CABERNET RIGHT HERE.
>> Stephen: WELL, LISTEN, I'VE REALLY ENJOYED READING EXCERPTS
OF YOUR BOOK.
I HAVEN'T MADE MY WAY ALL THE WAY THROUGH IT, BUT THERE ARE
SOME JUICY PARTS.
YOU ARE CANDID IN YOUR MEMOIR.
I CERTAINLY HOPE YOU WILL BE AS CANDID WITH ME AS YOU ARE IN THE
BOOK.
CAN I GET THAT PROMISE FROM YOU?
>> YOU CAN GET THAT.
I HAVE BEEN CANDID, STRAIGHTFORWARD MY WHOLE LIFE,
INCLUDING MY YEARS IN POLITICS, AND YOU'RE GOING TO GET THE SAME
TREATMENT, MAYBE A LITTLE MORE.
>> Stephen: NOW, MOST PEOPLE KNOW YOU AS THE GUY WHO GREW UP
SWEEPING THE FLOOR OF HIS DAD'S BAR IN OHIO, AND EVENTUALLY YOU
MAKE IT TO BE ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL PEOPLE IN THE UNITED
STATES, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.
I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT JOB.
SO FEW PEOPLE, ALTOGETHER LIKE 54 PEOPLE, HAVE HELD THAT JOB
OVER THE LAST 200 AND SOME ODD YEARS.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT JOB REQUIRES?
>> WELL, IT REQUIRES A LOT OF PATIENCE, BUT MOST OF THE SKILLS
I LEARNED GROWING UP IN MY DAD'S BAR ARE WHAT HELPED ME DO A GOOD
JOB AS SPEAKER.
FIRST THING YOU HAVE TO LEARN IS THE ART OF BEING ABLE TO
DISAGREE WITHOUT BEING DISAGREEABLE.
YOU KNOW, THE DRUNK SITTING AT THE END OF THE BAR, YOU DON'T
WANT TO FIGHT WITH HIM BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO AGREE WITH HIM.
SO FIND OUT HOW TO DISAGREE WITHOUT BEING DISAGREEABLE.
SECOND, YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO DEAL WITH EVERY JACKASS THAT
WALKS THROUGH THE DOOR.
THOSE TWO SKILLS HELPED ME MOST AS SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.
>> Stephen: I DEFINITELY WANT TO GET TO SOME OF THE JACKASSES
IN JUST A MOMENT, BUT WHO DO YOU THINK HAS DONE A GOOD JOB AS
SPEAKER OVER THE YEARS?
WHO DO YOU ADMIRE IN THAT RESPECT?
>> I THINK MOST EVERYBODY WHO HAS RISEN TO THAT JOB HAS DONE A
PRETTY GOOD JOB.
NANCY PELOSI.
YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE DID A NICE JOB AS SPEAKER.
IT'S A TOUGH JOB.
YOU'VE GOT 435 MEMBERS ALL INDEPENDENTLY ELECTED, OWE YOU
NOTHING, AND, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TRYING TO HELP MOVE THEM TO DO
GOOD THINGS ON BEHALF OF THE COUNTRY.
>> Stephen: THAT OWE YOU NOTHING THING IS KIND OF
INTERESTING TO ME.
HOW DO YOU CORRAL PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE ANY PARTICULARLY
LOYALTY TO YOU AS THE SPEAKER BECAUSE THEY'VE ALL GOT TO
ANSWER TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS.
YOU SAID IN 2011, WHEN YOU WERE ELECTED TO THE TOP JOB, YOU
BECAME "THE MAYOR OF CRAZY TOWN."
I REMEMBER LIVING IN DOWNTOWN CRAZY TOWN, STARTING AROUND
2010.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?
DO YOU THINK YOU CONTAINED THE CRAZIES?
>> I DID MY BEST TO TRY TO CORAL THEM AND MOVE THEM IN THE RIGHT
DIRECTION.
SOME OF THESE PEOPLE GOT ELECTED IN 2010, 2012, THEY WERE WAY OUT
THERE.
BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SENT THEM THERE.
AND I HAD TO DO MY BEST WITH WHAT I WAS DEALT.
I'VE ALWAYS BELIEVED YOU'VE GOT TO PLAY THE CARDS YOU WERE
DEALT.
EVERY MORNING, I'D WAKE UP AND KEPT LOOKING TO HAVE FIVE ACES.
STILL HAVEN'T GOTTEN FIVE ACES ANY MORNING.
BUT YOU HAVE TO PLAY THE CARDS YOU'RE DEALT AND I'VE PLAYED
THEM THE BEST I COULD.
>> Stephen: I HAVEN'T PLAYED A LOT OF POKER SIR BUT IF YOU GET
FIVE ACES, SOMEBODY'S CHEATING.
( LAUGHTER ) YOU'RE HARD ON TED CRUZ.
>> YOU MEAN LUCIFER IN THE FLESH?
>> Stephen: YES, AND THAT'S A LOT OF FLESH FOR LUCIFER TO FILL
OUT THERE.
IN THE AUDIO BOOK, YOU SAY -- DO WE HAVE THIS AUDIO?
CAN WE PLAY THIS, JIM?
>> TAKE IT FROM ME, YOU WILL NEVER KNOW WHERE YOU WILL END
UP.
THAT'S FREEDOM.
I'LL RAISE A GLASS TO THAT ANY DAY.
P.S., TED CRUZ, GO ( BLEEP ) YOURSELF.
>> Stephen: NOW, IT'S BEEN SAID EVERYBODY HATES TED CRUZ,
AND ON BEHALF OF EVERYBODY, LET ME AGREE WITH THAT.
( LAUGHTER ) BUT WHAT MADE YOU HAVE SO MUCH
CONTEMPT FOR THE MAN?
>> WELL, THIS GUY DIDN'T EVEN SERVE IN THE HOUSE.
HE SERVED IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE.
AND HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING IN THE SENATE EXCEPT MAKE NOISE, AND
COME OVER TO THE HOUSE SIDE AND STIR UP SOME OF MY MORE
CONSERVATIVE MEMBERS -- I DON'T KNOW IF I CALL THEM
CONSERVATIVE, SOME OF MY KNUCKLEHEADS INTO DOING THINGS
THAT MADE NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.
>> Stephen: LIKE WHAT.
UCH AS THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IN 2013 WOULD BE THE
PRIME EXAMPLE.
I TOLD THEM FOR MONTHS THIS IS THE DUMBEST THING I'VE EVER
HEARD OF.
THEY SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT TO GET RID OF ObamaCare.
HARRY REID WAS THE MAJORITY LEADER IN THE SENATE.
THEY WERE NEVER GOING TO GO THERE.
TED CRUZ AND THE KNUCKLEHEADS WERE SETTING US UP TO SHUT IS
GOVERNMENT DOWN.
I KEPT TELLING MEMBERS, THIS MAKES NO SENSE.
BUT IN THE BOOK, THERE'S A FAVORITE BOEHNER-ISM IN THERE
AND THAT IS A LEADER WITHOUT FOLLOWERS IS JUST A MAN TAKING A
WALK.
NEXT THING I KNOW, MY TROOPS ARE GOING TO MY RIGHT, AND AS THE
LEADER I'VE GOT NO CHOICE BUT TO JUMP OUT IN FRONT OF THEM TO BE
THEIR LEADER.
BUT IT WAS ONE OF THE DO YOU REMEMBER THINGS I'VE EVER SEEN.
ANYWAY, TED CRUZ WAS THE MASTERMIND BEHIND THIS PLAN.
SO HE'S REALLY THE ONLY PERSON IN THE BOOK I REALLY TAKE TO
TASK, AND I TAKE HIM TO TASK.
>> Stephen: WHY DO YOU THINK THAT YOU WERE GOING FOR A WALK?
WHY DO YOU THINK YOUR OWN PARTY JUMPED SO FAR IN A CRAZY
DIRECTION?
I'M NOT SAYING IT'S NECESSARILY YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, BUT IT'S
CERTAINLY WHILE YOU WERE A MEMBER DR. MEMBER OF THE
LEADERSHIP OF YOUR OWN PARTY.
DO YOU SEE A -- AN INFLECTION POINT WITHIN THE PARTY WHERE
THEY STARTED TO GO SO CRAZY RIGHT?
>> WELL, LISTEN, WE WERE JUST AT THE BEGINNING OF -- WE HAD THE
INTERNET, BUT ALL THE SOCIAL MEDIA STUFF WAS JUST STARTING TO
COME ON TO THE SCENE, BUT WE HAD TALK RADIO, MOSTLY CONSERVATIVE,
ALL THESE CABLE NEWS CHANNELS, ALL THEY DID WERE POLITICS ALL
NIGHT, AND WHAT HAPPENED AROUND 2009, 2010, '11, IS THAT THE
RIGHT-WING MEDIA WENT REALLY -- THEY WANTED NOISE AND THEY
WANTED MORE NOISE, AND THESE PEOPLE WERE ONLY TOO HAPPY TO
GIVE THEM NOISE AND THEY GOT A LOT OF AIR TIME.
SO I SAW THE BEGINNINGS OF THIS.
IT'S GOTTEN A LOT WORSE SINCE, AND THE PROBLEM IS NOT JUST ON
THE FAR RIGHT.
IT'S ON THE FAR LEFT AS WELL.
PEOPLE GET ELECTED, KNOW HOW TO USE SOCIAL MEDIA, KNOW HOW TO
USE TALK RADIO AND THE CABLE PEOPLE TO BUILD THEIR BRAND, IF
YOU WILL.
THEY'RE NOISE-MAKERS.
GETS THEM A LOT OF ATTENTION.
HELPS THEM RAISE MONEY, BUT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING ON BEHALF OF
THE COUNTRY.
>> Stephen: LET ME JUST FOR A MOMENT I'LL ACCEPT YOUR PREMISE
BOTH SIDES DO THIS, THOUGH I THINK THE REPUBLICANS HAVE
GOTTEN BETTER AT HAVING A MEDIA ARM THAT HELPS INFLATES THEIR
WORST INSTINCT THAN THE DEMOCRATS DO, BUT IF BOTH SIDES
DO THAT HOW COME NANCY PELOSI CAN CORRAL HER CRAZIES AND YOU
CAN'T CORRAL YOURS?
>> SHE'S DONE A BETTER JOB OF HOLDER HER PARTY TOGETHER.
I'VE WATCHED IT 30 YEARS OF BEING AROUND CONGRESS.
DEMOCRATS ARE ALWAYS MORE WILLING TO STICK TOGETHER THAN
REPUBLICANS ARE.
>> Stephen: WAIT A SECOND.
I DON'T THIN THAT'S TRUE.
>> THE VERY NATURE -- >> Stephen: THE REPUBLICANS
HAVE A MONOLITHIC QUALITY, THE DEMOCRATS ARE ALWAYS A COALITION
OF DIVERSE INTERESTS.
>> REPUBLICANS TEND TO BE MORE INDEPENDENT-MINDED THAN
DEMOCRATS.
I'VE JUST SEEN IT OVER THE YEARS.
ANYWAY, PELOSI'S DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF HOLDING THEM
TOGETHER THUS FAR.
>> Stephen: ALL RIGHT.
LET'S TALK ABOUT JANUARY 6th, AN INCREDIBLY HEARTBREAKING DAY
NONE OF US EVER THOUGHT THAT WE WOULD SEE.
YOU WROTE THAT DONALD TRUMP INCITED THAT BLOODY INSURRECTION
AND THE LEGISLATIVE TERRORISM I WITNESSED AS SPEAKER ACTUALLY
ENCOURAGED ACTUAL TERRORISM.
SO LOGICALLY AREN'T YOU SAYING DONALD TRUMP IS A POLITICAL
TERRORIST?
>> I DON'T MEAN TO DESCRIBE WORDS TO HIM, BUT I JUST THOUGHT
THAT WHAT HE WAS SAYING BEFORE THE ELECTION ABOUT THEY'RE GOING
TO STEAL THE ELECTION, THEY'RE GOING TO STEAL THE ELECTION, AND
THEN, AFTER THE ELECTION, CLAIMING THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN
WITHOUT EVER PROVIDING ONE OUNCE OF EVIDENCE.
I KEPT LOOKING, WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE?
AND AS SOMEONE WHO VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP, I'VE GOT TO TELL
YOU, I FELT ABUSED.
THE LOYALTY AND TRUST OF HIS SUPPORTERS, AND HERE HE IS LYING
TO THEM ABOUT THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION.
ALL OF THAT TENDED TO CRIANT AN AWFUL LOT OF PEOPLE TO SHOW UP
ON JANUARY 6th, AND THEN THIS DEMONSTRATION GOT TAKEN OVER BY
SOME REAL WACK JOBS WHO TURNED IT INTO SOME REALLY SERIOUS
VIOLENCE.
>> Stephen: DO YOU THINK BIDEN HAS ANY HOPE OF GETTING PEOPLE
TO COMPROMISE?
SINCE YOU WRITE IN THE BOOK THAT MANY OF THE REPUBLICANS -- FOR
MANY OF THE REPUBLICANS, IT'S NOT ABOUT PRINCIPLE, IT'S ABOUT
CHAOS, CAN YOU NEGOTIATE WITH AGENTS OF CHAOS?
>> WELL, LISTEN, STEPHEN, GOVERNING IN AMERICA, AS DIVIDED
AS IT IS, IS VERY DIFFICULT AND, FRANKLY, BOTH PARTIES ARE BEING
HELD HOSTAGE BY THE LOUDEST VOICES IN THEIR PARTIES AND, AS
A RESULT, IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY, REALLY TOUGH.
IF JOE BIDEN WERE TO SIT DOWN WITH MITCH McCONNELL AND BEGIN
TO WORK OUT SOMETHING ON INFRASTRUCTURE, THE RIGHT WOULD
CRUCIFY MCCONNELL AND, FRANKLY, THE LEFT WOULD CRUCIFY BIDEN.
AND, SO, GOD BLESS 'EM, THERE'S A WAY TO GET THERE, BUT IT'S
GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF COURAGE ON BEHALF OF THE LEADERS TO DO
IT.
>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK, MR. SPEAKER, BUT
WHEN WE COME BACK, I'VE GOT A CLASSIC SPEED ROUND ON TEN
PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON I'D LIKE THE SPEAKER TO WEIGH IN ON.
STICK AROUND.