- And then one night I saw him one night in a disco,
and he said,
"Mate, I've just seen that film of yours, 'Get Carter.'"
I said, "Oh yeah, what do you think?"
"Load of crap.
"Biggest load of crap I've ever seen."
(jazzy music)
- So we're actually going to start by
talking about the Kray twins, who you knew.
- [Michael] Yes, I did.
- So how did you first meet them?
- I met them in a discotheque.
They came in there and everybody went so quiet.
They had a disco, a sort of bar disco in Knightsbridge,
in a cellar.
And I remember going down there and seeing them.
Once I was at a dinner with Barbara Windsor,
and she knew them and they were in the same restaurant.
So I met them about three or four times,
but I tried very hard not to become a close friend
because they were scary.
They were scary.
The mood changes as the twins walk in.
They loom larger than any of the colorful characters,
frequenting the hideaway,
cooler than any of the celebrities at the bar
and with more fans, they're the true stars of this show.
- What sort of people would be around them most of the time?
- People who didn't want to die.
(laughing)
- Right.
So you had to not relax fully.
- No, they weren't a relaxing couple to be with,
quite honestly, and I grew up
in the Elephant and Castle.
There was an Elephant and Castle gang,
which was as fierce as them
and I knew them very well.
So I thought, I know enough gangsters,
I just want to be an actor,
be quite simple and quiet and we're not going to hit anybody
or slash anybody with a razor.
- You've been in gang films,
most notably, probably, "Get Carter."
So how did you prepare for a role like that?
- I knew a guy at the Elephant and Castle and he was that,
he was a killer.
I mean, I never said that to him but I just knew who he was.
And he knew I knew who he was and I based it on him.
And one night I saw him one night in a disco and he said,
"Mate, I just seen that film of yours, 'Get Carter.'"
I said, "Oh, yeah?
"What did you think?
"Load of crap, biggest load of crap I've ever seen."
I said, "Oh really?"
"One thing," he said,
"Why aren't you married?"
He said, "You aren't married."
He said, "We're all married.
"Why do you think we do these things?
"We have a family.
"What were you doing these things for?"
And he gave me a [Inaudible]
(Holly laughing)
and I never argued with him.
I didn't want to get assassinated the next day.
- Did he know that he'd inspired your character?
- Oh yeah, he knew that.
- Did that feel like fair game
or did it feel like you had to sort of tread carefully
about what you put in films?
- Oh, no.
You could say what you like in films because
they love it.
They love the fact that you're making a film about them.
- And when you think about the gangs that you portrayed
in films and the ones that you knew in your real life,
what were the biggest differences?
- It's according to, were they bosses?
Were they ordinary gangsters?
Were they assassins?
Three very different types of people
and I played all three
and they have a completely different personality.
The ordinary gangster never stops talking, you know?
And the assassin never says anything.
And the gang boss speaks a lot.
And when he does you better bloody listen.
(laughing)
- Do you think they have a different sense of morality?
Like, did Jack Carter just have a different sense
of what was moral?
- Oh, absolutely.
They are so powerful that they are right.
And you are wrong.
That's what it is about that.
- Those morals give you a lot to play with
in acting a part like that.
- Oh, yeah, it was wonderful for me.
Yeah, 'cause I knew my man, I knew how to do it.
(jazzy music)