I literally kicked the door open and my boyfriend was asleep.
And I was, like, "Baby, get up!
"This man cancelled the interview because he..."
I mean, like, I was crunk.
And he literally said "I know you're gonna do something about it
"so let me go back to sleep."
Alright look, I'm just gonna call it.
Karamo Brown really is the most interesting of the Queer Eye guys.
Not only was he the very first black gay man on American reality TV
back on MTV's The Real World in 2004.
He also worked as a social worker
he founded the organisation '6 in 10'
to give mental health support to those affected by HIV.
And he has one of the most remarkable paths into fatherhood you will ever hear.
Also, he starts and ends all interviews
with a gigantic hug.
- Oh, that feels much better. - Nice to meet you.
- Tim also wants a hug. - You're getting one.
When was the first moment that you realised that
there was power in visibility, that simply being who you are
in front of a camera, could have power?
I didn't learn it from being in front of the camera,
I learnt it originally just being a little young African-American gay boy
in the South to immigrant parents.
With a unique name.
So the neighbourhood I grew up in was predominantly white
and so first of all they would come in and say
"What kind of name is Karamo?"
So right then and there I had to feel proud of my name
and say "You know what? This comes from my background,
"and it comes from African roots and I have to be proud of that."
And so at first I would fake that proudness.
- I'm not gonna lie to you... - Really?
I had to fake it because I was in these spaces where I was like
I just want to fit in, I'm a child, I didn't understand
but I had the pressure of knowing
that I needed to present that I'm okay with who I am.
And eventually I did become okay with who I am.
By me doing that, it changed the culture of my schools.
Because now teachers and students weren't able to get away
with making comments because they knew I was proud of who I was.
They weren't allowed to give me a nickname
because they were lazy about learning my name.
They had to learn my name so for me visibility has always been something
that I've used as a tool to show people
that respect and love and empathy is always the first step
you should take when meeting other people.
As I understand it and you should correct me if I'm wrong about this,
but you came out when you about 15 years old?
Yes, so I don't use the term "coming out".
I actually use the term "when you let people in your life."
It's a small shift in language but I think that words have power.
It takes the power away from someone else
of accepting or denying you and says
"You have the power again."
My granny used to say if someone doesn't want to come in your house
you still have your home. And it's the truth.
If you don't want to come into my life because I've let you know who I am,
I'm gonna close that door and I'm still gonna be in the house
that I've built which is my temple and I'm gonna love myself.
Such a great term.
What was the learning curve like for people around you then
as you opened up the door and you let them in?
Yeah... It was hard.
You know, like I said, again, coming from an immigrant parent,
a family, and growing up in the South of America...
people often had...
adverse reactions...
Yeah.
..to me letting them into my life, for baring my sexuality.
So even, like, when I started to let my father into my life,
who had a very adverse reaction, we don't have a relationship at all now
because he's never been able to reconcile
his relationship with church and with his son
who's proud and openly gay.
And I remember, I used to fight with him.
And I used to think to myself I'm not winning.
And, I meant in the sense of not winning the fight...
- Yeah. - I realised my arguments with him
weren't adding better grades,
weren't adding more money in my bank account,
weren't putting gas in my car,
and I was, like, I'm not winning.
Yeah. You're in total deficit all the time.
I'm in total deficit, I'm just giving to you
the energy I could be using in other places.
And that was the first, I remember it very vividly,
16, 17, being like: Enough!
I definitely sense that Karamo has a lot of discomfort with his sexuality
and he feels the need to sort of hide it.
Then, the next big moment I had was
I was on MTV's Real World, which is a popular show in the States,
and I remember watching it back
and was the first time I had seen my life and my actions edited.
And for the first time in my life I got to see it.
And I thought to myself I don't want to be that guy.
Real World is interesting because Real World was
the first time your son saw you, wasn't it?
That is the first time my son saw me.
So, I guess the context around here is that you had a child very young,
you didn't realise you had a son,
and he's now, he and his brother are now very much a part of your life,
but what do you think his first impressions of you were?
Cos he only saw you on that show long before he met you.
Yeah, it's funny, my son and I had this conversation so...
My son's mother was the first and only girl I dated, when I was 15
right before I started letting people into my life and my sexuality.
We were children and our family members made the choices
to keep us apart.
And she moved away and years later, when my son was nine,
I found out about him through child support papers. And then...
What a great way, by the way...
- I know. - ..like, so wonderful.
Crazy, it was a wild moment.
And then through our meetings, got full custody of him.
And while going through that process
I did find out that he was watching me on the show.
And I was scared, because I was thinking to myself
woah, he saw me at a point where I was growing
and I don't want him to think that's what his father is.
And I'm actually happy now in hindsight
because any time he makes a mistake
he always says "But, you know, I'm going to grow through this.
"I remember you, Dad, when you were 22."
And I'm, like, "Oh, cha-ching!"
"Yes! You're right, you can be better!
"Cos I'm better now, you can be better!"
And that's phenomenal.
In the little sheet I got to learn about you
you wrote something that I thought was really interesting.
You wrote "I'm scared to let my team down."
What's the best lesson you've learned about men, masculinity,
since you've started Queer Eye?
That it's toxic.
Yeah, yeah.
Toxic behaviour is something that's been ingrained in us since we were children.
I remember this story vividly,
that when I was playing football
it was the first time I ever injured my leg.
I mean, I was in pain.
And my coach was literally screaming at me
"Brown, shake it off, walk it off, don't cry, get up!"
And I was, like...
you know, limping, wanting to weep and I couldn't.
In that same moment, no joke,
this girl was running around the track doing hurdles,
and she tripped over one of the hurdles
and, literally, everyone ran around her,
the same coach that had told me to suck it up, and was, like,
"Oh, my gosh, are you okay?" Everyone was...
And I was thinking "I'm equally as hurt
"but yet you told me that I can't feel."
And I realised that
dealing with the men that we work with on Queer Eye
every single one of them have been told
that if you feel, you're not a man.
If you want to have self-care, you're not a man.
If you don't address women in a certain way,
you're not a man.
If you're not about finances and sex, you're not a man.
And I'm, like, "This skewed definition of masculinity
"has to die."
Let's literally shoot it in the head and, like, bury it.
You know, and like, allow men to be reborn as, like,
amazing creatures that support and love each other
and love women and check-in with themselves.
This image, one that has become all too familiar,
students evacuating with their hands up.
The high school you went to,
at the moment is extraordinarily famous.
It's the same high school
that was the location of the Parkland shooting.
Are you at all surprised that
that school has turned out a generation of activists
that have gotten further with gun control in the US
than almost any other group?
Does it surprise you that that school produced kids that can do that?
Not at all.
Why?
Because our, a lot of people don't know
that my high school's named after an activist.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas was an activist
who worked her entire life to save the Everglades.
And she was an environmentalist.
And so as students we were constantly taught that you have a voice.
And you have to use that voice
to not only help yourself get what you want,
but to help others have a better life.
And so the minute that happened in my school,
I woke up that morning
terrified for myself and my sons, who were on their way to school.
But also for my community that I loved and my high school
and immediately I saw the kids come forward.
And I was, like,
"That's my school."
And we're in a spot now
where we see the shift as a culture.
Where people are, like, enough is enough.
The tradition in America, I know that's not globally,
there is a tradition with guns.
And, you know, some places
where hunting is something that people use guns for,
there are people who use guns responsibly.
So I'd be ignorant to say that I want all guns to be taken away.
What I want is for us as citizens to have a voice and,
with our politicians, and say
"Help us to make sure that guns are not in the wrong people's hands.
"Help us to make sure that no child at 18
"should have access to get a gun."
We can't even get licences to drink
until you're 21 in the States,
yet we're saying you have the mental capacity to handle a gun at 18?
No. So we need to just reform the legislation
to make sure that we're being more responsible.
and I think it starts with stop dividing
and making it being "I'm trying to take something away from you."
Again, I'm not.
I just want us to work together to protect our future generations.
You, sir, are an absolute pleasure to talk to.
Oh, thank you. You're amazing, thank you.